• [00:01:17] Episode introduction and Caroline's presentation
• [00:01:35] Presentation of Fabula
• [00:02:24] How does a digital training course work?
• [00:03:27] Purpose of this name change
• [00:03:47] Unique value proposition
• [00:04:57] Why choose PHCom?
• [00:05:39] Looking for sponsors for the school
• [00:05:47] A two-step mission
• [00:06:33] A Business Hub
• [00:07:39] Goal of the Business Hub
• [00:08:05] Sponsors vs Business Hub: which approach?
• [00:09:20] Company meetings: what experience sharing?
• [00:10:14] Long-term relationship: how to maintain?
• [00:11:13] Current challenges for Fabula
• [00:12:15] What are the expectations for the coming years?
• [00:12:53] Collaboration with PHCom in three words
• [00:13:56] After each meeting: feedback and discussion?
• [00:14:29] Thanks and episode closing

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:15] Hello and welcome to another episode of the "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" podcast, produced by PHCom in the "transforma bxl" studio, with technical support from "The Podcast Factory Org".

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:27] The "Performance, Harmony & Sales" Podcast is aimed at marketing and sales managers, as well as company executives with sales functions.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:36] Every month, we share our best practices in finding new customers for business-to-business companies.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:43] You can find each episode on the PHCom point be P.H.C.O.M website, and also on all good podcast platforms.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:54] You can support this podcast and promote its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, comment or share.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:02] The answering machine is always open so that you can leave us a message, which we'll be delighted to answer.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:09] You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane on PHCom dot be.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:16] See you soon.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:17] Hello Caroline

Caroline Desmecht: [00:01:18] Hello Camille

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:19] How are things today?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:01:20] Very, very good.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:21] I'm delighted to welcome you here to our beautiful podcast studio. This is a first exercise for you, have you done this before?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:01:28] Never, no. I've taken a podcast course, but I've never actually created a podcast.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:35] Okay, well that's great, you're going to do it like a boss then. So Caroline, tell us a little bit about who you work for? You work for Fabula? What do you actually do?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:01:44] What's up? Fabula was originally a school in Louvain-La-Neuve, formerly known as Charles Péguy. The school mainly trained students in the hotel, tourism and events sectors. And in recent months, the school has taken a different direction, focusing exclusively on Event Manager training. So we still have a face-to-face school in Louvain-La-Neuve, and my mission for the past few months has been to develop the cooperative society. Which will focus on digital training for Event Managers and the creation of an event community.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:24] How does digital training work when you're a student? So there's never any physical contact, so everything is done remotely and they learn remotely.

Caroline Desmecht: [00:02:32] So the idea is that you can learn from a distance, obviously, and we're aiming at different target audiences. We're obviously targeting students coming out of high school, or people who have already trained in communications or marketing, and who want to specialize in event management. But now we're also going to address the events sector itself, because when you're in the events business, you're so caught up in the flow of work that you don't always have the time to train, keep up to date and take part in seminars and TEDx, things like that. So the idea is that we can also offer this to professionals in the sector, in asynchronous training. This means that people learn at their own pace, and in conditional progression, which also means that you can't validate a training course if you haven't followed it chapter by chapter.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:27] Did you say you've changed your name?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:03:30] So why the name change, but because the school really took a different direction and Charles Péguy was still very strongly associated with tourism, the hotel business and events. Fabula focuses exclusively on events, and we wanted to breathe new life into the school.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:47] What sets you apart from all the other training courses available here in Belgium? What sets you apart?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:03:52] So, what sets us apart is the teachers. It's important to know that all our teachers are industry professionals, who work in the field every day, so they can really pass on and share the realities of the industry. The second thing is that our course curriculum has been totally rethought, based on seven pillars: Be, Do, Think, See & feel, Explore, Connect & Commit. All of this takes up the values that we believe are essential in training for the job and in the job itself. The third point that sets us apart from other schools is our NFT certification. Since we don't receive any subsidies from the Wallonia-Brussels Federation, we have created our own NFT certification, which is a means of tracing and freezing all the work of our students who are going to register on the blockchain, making it traceable, authentic and visible to anyone who wishes to see it.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:57] You called on PHCom, and as a reminder, we specialize in all aspects of marketing and sales development for companies and schools too. So how does the collaboration work? And why did you call us?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:05:12] So we called in PHCom because, as a new company with limited resources - and when I say limited resources, I mean not only financial, but above all human resources - I didn't know how to manage everything. I didn't know how to manage everything, PHCom is an expert in research and commercial canvassing, that's all, and I think that when you need results, it's better to call on experts than try to do it yourself.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:39] You've set up several projects with PHCom. Can we talk about looking for sponsors for the school?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:05:46] Exactly.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:47] There are also two other levels. Can you tell us a bit about how all this came about?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:05:52] Initially, PHCom's primary mission is to find sponsors. So we'd like to find companies that are sensitive to and active in the events sector to help us develop this digital platform, and already create an events sector community. We'd like to create a Biz, not a Club but a Hub, so we'll also have to canvass and raise awareness at that level. So I think PHCom could also have another mission here.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:33] When we talk about Business HUB, what exactly is HUB? It's getting people from the same sector together, talking, how do these moments go?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:06:41] The idea is really to be able to bring together as many people as possible from the events sector, but all sectors combined in fact, so we won't be limiting ourselves to events agencies or the audiovisual sector. We really want to be able to put an event caterer at the same table as an event producer or agency. Steward's agency and hostesses who also have very important roles at events. The idea is really to open up the sector, to enable people to discuss, share and think about a new vision of the events industry, which is already underway to some extent, but which really lacks dynamism, namely sustainability within the sector. It's a sector where we build a lot, we're very good at the ephemeral, but we also have to be able to give a second life to what we do. So that's another question we'd like to discuss with the whole sector.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:39] And the aim is really to create synergies, I presume?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:07:42] Synergies, 100% synergy, dynamics, interaction, collaboration, that's something we're really keen on, to be able to really put different people around the table, but we often tend to work with our suppliers whom we know well, but in fact there are a host of resources and potential elsewhere too. And so the idea is really to mix it all up.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:05] You don't address a sponsor in the same way as you address people and invite them into the Business HUB. How does this approach work? When you go to a meeting and you have to meet these people, these companies?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:08:16] So for sponsors, it's, I mean in quotation marks, simpler because you can identify the company. Often, these are companies that are really active in the events sector. I worked in the events industry for 20 years, so I'm already familiar with it, so it's easier for me to broach the subject with people who already know the sector. As far as a biz hub is concerned, we're going to attract a whole range of different people, people who are more or less involved in events, who were very involved at one time and who have now moved on to art and culture. It's a different approach. First of all, it's listening to people, talking to them, and then seeing a bit, feeling around, seeing a bit of "Oh well, this person here, what really touches her is the cultural sector. This person is more human-oriented". So it's all about adapting to others, listening, exchanging and trying to build bridges and see how we can co-create.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:20] How are your meetings with these companies going? Is there anything you'd like to share with us? Failures, successes too? When you talk to these people, how do things go?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:09:30] Generally speaking, I'd like to say that things are going pretty well. And because I know what I'm talking about, it's really easy to connect with people. But there have also been times when I've come across people who aren't really active in the events sector, but who were sympathetic to the idea of. And so here, it's more of an exchange, a listening, and finding out how we could, in the future, create something. Even though, as I talk to people, I get the feeling that we won't be moving on to the next stage just yet. But I think that the more the project develops, the more we can try to build bridges afterwards.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:14] Yes, and life is all about timing (Caroline Desmecht: Right). Maybe when you meet them, the synergies don't happen, but at least they know you exist and maybe one day they will. But that's what's so complicated: how do you keep going in the long term when you meet people like that? Do you have any tips? Does PHCom have any tips for you?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:10:32] So first of all, as soon as we finish an appointment, it's a little email, I send an email directly, sometimes I make a phone call afterwards to make sure the person has received my email. And then it's really going to be up to me to organize my agenda, to keep in mind, here's this person I know would be interested in this so... You have to get organized and keep an agenda. And I think things will fall into place like that over time, but it's really about creating a relationship at the time of the interview, the appointment, but also over time. But after that, everyone has a very busy schedule and we're going to have to build the relationship as well.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:13] What are the current challenges in finding investors for a private school like Fabula? Are there things where you say to yourself "Yeah, we can't do that now, in 2025".

Caroline Desmecht: [00:11:24] Not much at stake. For me, the biggest obstacle is that Fabula is a school, we train people, and at the moment, investors are more interested in technological and digital innovation. Because we know that there will be a return on investment sooner or later. Training people, even if it's still education and, in our eyes, something of prime importance in a society, is less profitable, and therefore more difficult to attract investors. But after that, it's also up to us to convince them with the project, and so we have to regularly rethink the project according to the targets we want to reach. So here we are, sailing, sailing and... We'll see.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:15] So what does the future hold for Fabula, and what are your expectations for the coming years?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:12:20] Our expectations, our ambition, would really be to see an active events community on our digital platform, to see that people are interested in the content of our training courses, that they follow them, that they talk about them. And then, in a second phase, the real aim is to be able to organize face-to-face events with the whole community, to be able to tackle different themes and really create links. That's really our ambition, to create links and break down barriers in the sector.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:53] If you had to define your relationship with PHCom in three words, what would you say?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:12:59] Coaching, learning and support. I'm going to elaborate: coaching, Stéphane here at your company, is a great listener, and in coaching that's something very important, so he really put himself in a position of active listening to understand the project, to know how he could make it his own. Learning, that's because afterwards he gave us a little course in "Ok, how do we prepare for the first telephone appointment?" Then, "How do you prepare for the second face-to-face meeting?", and then again for the third meeting until an agreement is signed. I'd never done that before, so it was reassuring for me to have Stéphane around, he was always there, intervening when he felt like it. And then we debriefed at the end of the meeting, so there you have it, very nice and very rich.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:13:56] And at the end of each meeting with his companies, his sponsors, his patrons, all the people you met with Stéphane, what came out? You leave the door and chat with Stéphane. How do these exchanges go?

Caroline Desmecht: [00:14:09] Ben is always very good. He says, "There, maybe you should have talked more about this, maybe you talked a little too much about that. And it's true that emptiness comes up a lot, too, in the thinking of the events sector, so there you have it, COVID has had its impact, and its importance, and there you have it. But generally always great, always caring and always constructive.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:14:29] Thank you very much Caroline for this exchange, and all the best for the future.

Caroline Desmecht: [00:14:33] Many thanks Camille and many thanks to PHCom.

• [00:01:07] Podcast introduction
• [00:01:09] What does Kick and Rush do?
• [00:01:33] What is merchandising?
• [00:01:56] Product catalogue
• [00:02:13] What about the competition?
• [00:03:11] CSRD: how does it work in practice?
• [00:04:05] To be sustainable or not to be, really
• [00:04:35] Key differentiators from competitors
• [00:05:31] The values of Kick and Rush
• [00:06:02] Advice for young entrepreneurs
• [00:06:46] Failures and successes in lead generation
• [00:07:26] Sales onboarding and training
• [00:08:50] Which sales techniques are applied?
• [00:09:52] Adapting your pitch to your audience
• [00:10:31] Greatest commercial achievement
• [00:11:12] To grow or not to grow?
• [00:11:40] How do you find new clients?
• [00:13:48] Working with PHCom: time well saved?
• [00:14:38] Essential commercial skills today
• [00:15:14] Next sales ambition
• [00:15:49] Why contact headquarters directly?
• [00:16:31] Any story to share about PHCom?
• [00:17:39] How to maintain trust with clients and prospects
• [00:18:05] Describe PHCom in three words
• [00:18:16] Episode closing

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:13] Hello and welcome to another episode of the "Performance and Harmony" podcast, produced by PHCom in the "transforma bxl" studio with technical support from "The Podcast Factory Org".

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:23] The "Performance and Harmony" podcast is aimed at marketing and sales managers, as well as company executives with commercial responsibilities.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:32] Every month, we share with you our best practices in finding new customers for companies in the business-to-business sector.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:38] You can watch every episode on the PHCom .be website. P.H.C. OM, and also on all good podcast platforms.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:48] You can support this podcast and promote its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, comment or share.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:55] The answering machine is always open so that you can leave us a message, which we'll be delighted to answer.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:00] You can also make an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane on PHCom .be

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:06] See you soon.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:07] Hello Thibault.

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:01:08] Hello Camille

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:09] We're delighted to welcome you to our podcast today for the continuation of our episodes. So tell us, what do you do for a living, what's Kick and Rush?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:01:16] Professionally, of course. Kick and Rush is a merchandising company. In French, le cadeau d'affaires, and so we help companies to promote either their brand to the outside world, or, since the covid, also promote the company internally, i.e. to employees.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:33] What is merchandising? Take a gourd, for example, and put a company logo on it, right? Or is it a bit... I think what I'm saying is a bit trivialized, but what is it really?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:01:41] No, no, that's exactly it. In any object that's used on a daily basis, on which we'll put a logo, we'll put a first name, we'll put a message, and we'll try to communicate with this product over time, we'll stay close to people, to promote again: an idea, a product, a brand.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:56] And what type of product do you use?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:01:58] So there are different categories. There are some categories that are working really, really hard, like textiles, anything gourmet these days, anything technological. But there are also products that are more mouth-watering, tableware, so it includes a whole range of products that are useful on a day-to-day basis.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:13] I presume there's a lot of competition in this sector. How does it work and what sets you apart?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:02:19] There are many of us, and different companies cater to different sectors and audiences. We specialize in very large companies that want to communicate on a European level, in terms of their product range. Who, for example, will ask us to create a website for all their subsidiaries. Let me give you an example: a European company, based in Belgium or France, will ask us to create a collection, and all its employees throughout Europe will be able to order the products in small quantities. These products will be: one, bought in bulk so there are savings for buyers. Secondly, you can be sure that the brand name is respected, that the logo is printed correctly, embroidered correctly, etc. And thirdly, we're able to give them all the carbon emission calculations, an ecoscore, which is essential for the CSRD, which is therefore a European directive that is really the issue today for marketers and procurement.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:11] While we're on the subject of CSRD, how does it work in practice?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:03:15] So we developed a tool to calculate carbon emissions by product. This means: we can give our customers the carbon emission, the ecological cost of producing a product, for a specific action or throughout the year. What does it mean? This means that, alongside the product's economic cost, we can also give the product's ecological cost. So I'll give you an example: someone - we were talking about water bottles - wants to choose a water bottle, and we're going to offer them two or three water bottles at different prices, both economical and ecological. And he'll be able to choose between a product made in Europe from a plastic material, a product made in Asia from a completely recycled material, and a third product which may be a mix of the two. And sometimes it's very surprising to see the ecological cost of a product, because you don't really realize that transport is involved, which isn't all that important.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:05] That's what I was going to say, sometimes the difference is obvious?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:04:08] So sometimes it's obvious. We have a very good example of a campaign starting with PHCom at the moment, where we come up with two products, address sustainability managers, and simply show them two pens. One is made of wood, bamboo, and the other of plastic, and we ask him which is more environmentally friendly. And of course, it's the recycled plastic one that's made in China, and so it's used to start having a dialogue about the whole ecological thinking, the carbon footprint of a company through its merchandising.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:35] And this, I presume, is where you really set yourself apart from the competition?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:04:39] So we're all trying in our industry to work on sustainability because, just a few years ago, our media, what we call product media, was seen as a polluting medium. Today, it's a medium that's made enormous efforts, so the whole industry is working on sustainable development, so we're all trying, in our own way, to do our bit. When we talk to marketing managers, we also talk more and more about the ecological cost compared to other media. So we realize that, today, to offer a gourd to someone, the ecological contact cost, which means: we divide the ecological cost by the number of times the product is seen, where the logo is seen, is much lower than an advert on a social network, on TV or anywhere else. And so we've really, in our industry, completely changed our approach to show that merchandising is ecological and that it respects the environment much more than other media.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:31] We're talking about the environment, we're talking about ecology, and these are pretty important issues today. So what does Kick and Rush stand for? Let's talk about ecology. Are there any others that come to mind?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:05:43] At Kick and Rush, respect has been the leitmotiv of the company's development for 30 years. And ecology being one of them: a respect for ecology, a respect for our future generations, and so on. But it also means respect for the customer and respect for our employees. Well, we have six values, but this is the most essential one in our company at Kick and Rush.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:02] What's your advice? Would you give it to young people or people who want to go into the same line of work as you?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:06:07] So I'm going to take the liberty of expanding and not just saying in my line of work, if that's okay with you Camille. I started this company as a student, in parallel with my marketing studies, and I don't think I'd recommend it today to young people who want to get started. I'd suggest they train at other companies, train in other sectors, go and see what's on offer left and right. There's no age limit for starting out, but I think one of the fundamental values is to have a good education. When you're just out of school or very young, but sometimes you can supplement your training with work experience, and that's the advice I'd give. You can wait five years to develop a business, I think there's plenty of time.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:46] Now we're going to talk about the commercial aspect, which is important: you have to find customers, you have to keep the business going. Could you tell us about a setback, or a positive experience you've had on a day-to-day basis in terms of finding new customers and new leads?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:06:59] I think the biggest failure at Kick and Rush in terms of finding new leads is abandoning those leads. Over the years, when I look at the sales history, I realize that a whole series of customers have disappeared. Why did they disappear? Quite simply because they didn't order for a year or two for X, Y reasons, and we weren't diligent enough to continue, we didn't set up computer tools for reminders, and so I think the greatest failure of Kick and Rush is to have part of its database simply disappear.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:26] Someone who starts out with you as dirty people, because there are dirty people in your company, how does it work, are there several of you? Anyway, you'll tell me more later about the number of teams, the number of salespeople you have, but how do things work? How do you train a new salesperson, how do you set everything up with him or her?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:07:40] So at Kick and Rush there are about ten account managers, and we're organized into four segments. We have four customer segments, and we offer different services depending on the size of the customer. And so a salesman, depending on his experience, will start in one segment or another. A young salesman will obviously start out in a segment that's a little easier with our typical SME and association segment. A salesperson who is 40 years old, with experience in the sector, may be more likely to focus on the strategic customer segment for the company. Training obviously depends on the salesperson's level of knowledge, and I'm not talking about the level of knowledge of the industry, because that can be learned quite quickly, but really on the level of knowledge he or she has in terms of customer follow-up, developing opportunities, etc., etc., etc. So either account managers come from outside, or many come from within the company too, having worked in sales support or various other functions, and then at some point an opportunity opens up within the company. As always, positions are first opened internally, and the opportunity seized by a person, and therefore the training, will depend at that point on his or her background. Maybe we'll have to train him typically in sales techniques, or maybe we'll have to train him in products and services, since he'll have sales techniques.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:50] We're talking about sales techniques. So what do you actually do?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:08:53] Kick and Rush offers ongoing training courses for account managers. Earlier we were talking about sustainability, and I think the last training course they had less than six months ago was actually two full days on knowledge of standards, knowledge of how to calculate whether a product is less polluting than another, and eco-score training, so that's more technical I'd say. And then there were all the training courses on customer follow-up and development, because that's what account managers are asked to do. I'll explain later how we're organized for prospects and customer development. So in a company there are two things: we grow by acquiring new customers, but we also grow by developing our customers, obviously by not losing customers, right? But also customer development, because as I was saying earlier, we're talking to the marketing manager for the external side, but also perhaps to HR for the internal side. And so, once we're working with a company, with HR I'll say, who wants to make a gift for their employees, well we'll obviously try to work with the marketing manager and so we'll spread our, weave our web like a beautiful spider and try to reach out to all the different departments.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:52] Do you talk differently to a marketing manager than to a HR manager?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:09:55] Of course, of course. And you speak differently to Procurement than to a Sustainability Manager. The speeches will be adapted, the content is the same, but we'll talk differently, yes, of course. We speak our interlocutor's language, and maybe we're people who are specialized in discussing marketing with companies in FMCG or cosmetics, for example. And then there are others who are more specialized and more attracted to the banking, service or automotive sectors. And so a marketing manager at Deloitte or KPMG is approached differently than a marketing manager at L'Oréal or InBev, for example.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:31] Adapting your approach is very important, and we see this every day in our prospecting activities at PHCom. What's your proudest business achievement? Is there anything you can think of?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:10:42] I'd say the greatest achievement is to be here after 30 years and to have continued to develop, to have 80 people, to have 80 families behind kick and Rush. It's through the trust that our customers have in Kick and Rush that, in the end, it's that we work well and the customer stays. We have customers who have been loyal for more than fifteen years, I think, and these are big, big companies that are canvassed I think every week by our colleagues. They're still with us, so that makes me proud. I tell myself that all my colleagues are doing their jobs and can be proud of what we've achieved, yes.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:12] And you continue to grow and evolve, I think that's the most important thing, in a society where

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:11:16] We're very much in the "Do we always have to grow and do more?" discussion. But yes, it's an ambition for us, we like to grow, we like challenges. We're in the process of developing the French market enormously, and we have two acquisitions coming up in the next few weeks, but these are challenges, because ultimately, when you stagnate, I think you fall asleep. And when we start to fall asleep, our colleagues continue to develop, so that's the beginning of the end.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:36] Never give up, that's it!

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:11:38] Jamais, jamais, jamais. Of course.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:40] We were talking about maintaining customers over the long term. That's what's so complicated, I think. It's a day-to-day challenge. What do you do to find new customers? So you find them, then we know that the challenge is to maintain them. But what's the first step?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:11:55] You need to find new customers, but you also need to reactivate dormant ones. And so, with regard to these customers, prospects and dormant customers, we realized that the sales people weren't very assiduous. In other words, as you know, there are salespeople who are more of a farmer and others who are more of a hunter. In any case, a salesman likes to go out and find sales, he likes to develop and so on. So when you have a customer who doesn't respond much, or doesn't respond enough, or who isn't very active, well, the sales person will naturally move on to another contact, and he'll move on to contacts, customers who will order more, or who will have more interaction with him. And so we've done all this prospecting and customer redevelopment work that was a bit on the back burner. It's true that it's a long-term job and, generally speaking, a sales person works in the short term. He'll be more attracted by answering a customer who wants to sign an order form than by starting to follow up five emails with prospects. And so, over the last few years, we've decided to set up a unit that really specializes in prospecting. So, with people who specialize in lead development, we're really talking about Hunter, aren't we? These are people who are very happy to go and sign a deal and develop it, but in the long term they're also very happy to pass the lead on to another salesperson who will develop it. But we were lacking in telephone prospecting and follow-up, meaning that we had developed a whole series of tools through our CRM to send emails, make posts on social networks about certain people we were interested in, and at some point we had to call. And it's very, very specific, which is why we called in PHCom, to get people who are very professional and who have the time to relaunch five, six, seven times, ten times if need be, and who won't give up. Because I think that one of the essential elements in prospecting, once you've defined your target and got the right message, is to keep going, to never give up, because it may be in six months or a year, or a year and a half that you'll finally get an appointment. And for this long-term work, I think we needed a consulting firm to help us.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:13:48] We're going to talk about the cost of working with PHCom. Do you think PHCom has saved you time?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:13:56] Above all, it has enabled us to avoid wasting time and keep my teams motivated about the added value they can bring. Because a very good salesperson who's going to be very good at appointments and who's going to develop a product line for a customer isn't especially the one who's the most assiduous, and who's going to be the best at the first telephone contact. Quite simply, young people today, I'm not sure they're very comfortable calling a contact they don't know on a mobile number, and so they tend to send messages and send e-mails and hide behind WhatsApp (Camille de Meeûs: To get around what) that's it, that's it. Anything to avoid taking a live shot of the door closing, because that's never fun. And so a company like PHCom saves us time in the sense that we don't lose any, if I may say so, and we keep our teams' energy on the real added value they have.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:14:38] What sales skills do you feel are essential today, both in working with PHCom and with your sales team?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:14:45] Well first of all it's empathy and loving contact, I think that's the first thing. We need to be sure of what we're offering, because I think that today we're no longer in the business of offering products. Well, maybe that was the case 20 or 30 years ago, but today we need to believe in what we're offering. I think there are two skills that are essential for me: the empathy I was talking about and tenacity. Because after all, you have to be able to hold on, you have to be able to bounce back, you have to be able to keep going. There's no such thing as a customer you meet for the first time and after ten minutes you walk out with a substantial order form. That's impossible.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:15:14] What's your next "sales target" ambition? With PHCom or with your teams?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:15:19] Here, in the very short term, we have a huge prospecting campaign underway, focusing on the CSRD we were talking about and the sustainable side. And we're going to try to get into companies with our USP, our Unique Selling Proposition, which is to have this carbon calculator and eco score on every product. And so our ambition is to get into companies we haven't yet managed to work with, thanks to this aspect of the environmental side, but above all of proof and figures and data, to really develop our customer base in the years to come.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:15:49] I understand that your prospecting is geared more towards headquarters. What's the point of contacting them directly? What's in it for Kick and Rush?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:15:58] But often, when a European company's head office is contacted, the European marketing manager is there, the procurement manager is there, so we have all the right people on the spot. And by contacting the person in charge directly, we'll be able to have a presence in all the countries that are either NPIA or NPA, all at once. At Kick and Rush, we exported to 92 countries last year, so we can't afford to go to 40, 50, 60 countries to prospect. There are language barriers, and time-slot barriers too, with different schedules. So we're trying to find the head of marketing and procurement at European level.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:16:31] We're going to finish, very slowly (Thibault Fontaine: But it's going fast, isn't it?), because we're coming to the end anyway, it's going very fast. Is there any particular story or anecdote you'd like to share with us from your collaboration with PHCom? I think we've been working together for a year, a year and a half now. Is there anything you can think of that you'd like to share with us?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:16:48] We started working with PHCom... But maybe it's because I met Stéphane ten years ago, Stéphane Depaepe, but we've never worked together. But eight years ago, I remembered that I'd had a good contact and that I'd liked his speech. And so I think that beyond the success and beyond all that can be said about our collaboration over the past year and a half, what I'd like to pass on as a message is: you have to work on the long term, you have to work on the long term because you never know what it's going to become. A customer can come on his own afterwards, and that's what we did at Kick and Rush at the very beginning, I mean, and still now, we're very focused on Scout leaders and Student Circle leaders. Why? Because in ten years' time, they'll be our customers. And so if they have a good experience today, well, they'll have a good experience and they'll come back to us in ten years' time. And so I think it's an illustration of what happened with PHCom, you always have to work on the medium-long term, and not look at the short term and say "I've got to sign, I've got to have something for the next month or the next few weeks".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:17:39] Much has been said about this long term. What's the key to keeping that trust with customers and prospects we find for Kick and Rush?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:17:46] I think it's important to be able to say no to customers. You have to be able to say "I don't think what you want to do is right for you". It's all about advice, and understanding a brand's and a customer's philosophy so as to be able to advise them as objectively as possible. You have to be able to say no and explain that there are risks involved. And if he wants to take the risk, he can take it and then, uh... But he'll be right back!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:18:05] Last question: can you define your collaboration with PHCom in three words?

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:18:10] So I'd say the three words that come immediately to mind: confidence, tenacity and honesty.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:18:16] It's very beautiful, to conclude, thank you in any case Thibaud. And all the best for the future.

Thibaut Fontaine: [00:18:20] Thank you Camille, goodbye.

• [00:01:04] Introduction and context
• [00:01:12] Presentation of Optimal Computing
• [00:02:07] Application areas of digitization
• [00:02:35] The market and competition
• [00:03:25] What is low-code?
• [00:04:34] Origin of the name Optimal Computing
• [00:05:05] AI and programming
• [00:05:40] Company history
• [00:06:43] Values and management of young talents
• [00:07:36] Advice for young entrepreneurs
• [00:08:25] Why call on PHCom
• [00:09:41] Sales challenges in their sector
• [00:10:51] What to expect from the collaboration?
• [00:11:25] First concrete feedback
• [00:12:05] Three words to describe PHCom
• [00:12:29] Closing of the episode

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:12] Hello and welcome to this new episode of the Performance et Harmonie podcast, produced by PHCom in the transforma bxl studio in Brussels, with technical assistance from The Podcast Factory Org.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:23] The Performance et Harmonie podcast is intended for marketing and sales managers as well as company executives with commercial responsibilities.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:30] Every month, we share with you good experiences in finding new clients for companies active in business to business.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:36] You can find each episode on the PHCom .be website. P.H.C.O.M, and also on all good podcast platforms.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:45] You can support this podcast and increase its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, a comment, a share.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:52] The answering machine is still active so you can leave us a message, we will reply with great pleasure.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:57] You can also make an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane by going to PHCom .be

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:03] See you soon.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:04] Hello Stéphane.

Stephane Pierret: [00:01:04] Hello.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:05] How are you?

Stephane Pierret: [00:01:06] Very well, very well.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:07] First time here, in a podcast studio?

Stephane Pierret: [00:01:09] Exactly, the first time I'm going to do this kind of podcast.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:12] It's going to be fine, it's cool, it's an exchange and today we're going to discuss: Optimal Computing. Tell me a bit, what do you do concretely at Optimal Computing?

Stephane Pierret: [00:01:20] At Optimal Computing we develop software and we do artificial intelligence. And so we mainly deal with digitization services for companies, for small SMEs.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:31] When we say digitization, you implement DMs, can we put it that way? Are they systems, programs for companies?

Stephane Pierret: [00:01:37] Indeed, programs, software, so in any company they already have some software, and then there are parts that are missing, which are still paper processes, which are still Excel spreadsheets that are used to do certain things. We intervene to develop software to facilitate the way people can work, to minimize the errors they can make in an Excel file, to minimize the errors they will make in a paper form, to simply share information with everyone in digital format.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:07] Is it mainly for human resources or is it for all types of functions in companies?

Stephane Pierret: [00:02:12] No, it can be for any type of function. For example, we've done projects for a company that assembles equipment for the aeronautics industry, which must comply with very strict quality procedures. We did a project for a company that does EPBs, energy audits, and also for a company that manufactures water pumps. So it's a bit for all fields and for all types of companies, let's say small and medium-sized companies.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:35] Is there a lot of competition in the market regarding what you do? We hear about digitization often; more and more companies actually have no choice but to digitize. How do you manage that in the face of competition? And above all, what would you say to your biggest competitor?

Stephane Pierret: [00:02:48] There are several ways to do digitization. First, a company looks for a digital solution and finds software that matches 95% of what it's looking for on the market, off the shelf; it takes it, buys it, pays the fee, and that's that. That's one option. A second option is that it needs something specific, and it will ask a developer, or a team of developers, or a service company, to develop the software custom-made. And we intervene as a third option, meaning we use a platform we call "Low-code"; it's a platform we are developing, and it allows us to develop software ten times faster than with the traditional programming approach.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:25] That's actually Optimal Computing's specialty, how does that work?

Stephane Pierret: [00:03:27] Exactly. Low-code, what is it actually? It's: rather than creating software in the form of computer programs and tens of thousands of lines of computer code, we have a platform that allows us, using drag-and-drop, to create a graphical interface, or nodes to fetch data or send data back to a database or anywhere in the cloud or on a company's server, without programming, without needing to have the syntactic knowledge of a programming language. And so that allows us to develop an application ten times faster. That's one thing. The other thing is that we can, live with the client, develop the graphical interface they dreamed of for their software. We can do it in a format a bit like PowerPoint, but we create a real interface with existing behaviors, buttons, and so we can very quickly agree with the client on the final outcome of what they will see. This greatly reduces the risk of misunderstanding between the service provider, meaning us, and our client. And once the graphical interface is made, then we work on our side; the work "only then" begins, but we will fetch the data where needed, organize the data, and display the data in the right place, at the right time.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:34] Optimal Computing, where does that name come from actually, and what does it mean concretely?

Stephane Pierret: [00:04:38] It's historical. It's because in a previous life, I did numerical optimization, and I applied optimization techniques in the design of jet engines for aeronautics, or car turbos, basically rotating machines like: pumps, compressors, or turbines. And for that, we were already using artificial intelligence techniques called either neural networks, the ancestors of what we know now, or genetic algorithms, which are also artificial intelligence techniques.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:05] Artificial intelligence, we hear about it all the time, we can't do without it at Optimal Computing, do you work with artificial intelligence every day?

Stephane Pierret: [00:05:13] Exactly, we work on two levels. We use it in our work for programming because it provides programming assistance; it can provide assistance for drafting a project, a summary, or any other document. And then, we also use it for our clients. That is to say, in our Low-code platform, every time we had to create an artificial intelligence feature for a client, we integrated it into our platform so that it could be very quickly redeployed for another client.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:40] Tell me a little bit about the history of this company. How long has it existed, how many of you work at Optimal Computing? How does it go day-to-day at your place?

Stephane Pierret: [00:05:47] The company, I created it in 2008, initially by myself, as a consultant. Then there was a first hire in 2011, if I remember correctly. And then we grew a little, but it was mainly in 2020 that we tackled this idea of developing a low-code platform. Because at that time, we were doing a lot of specific development for companies, but still in the programming format, which led to projects that were quite costly and required significant time. At one point, I told myself, "We can't keep going on like this all the time. We need to find something else to offer companies." And so, the idea of these emerging low-code platforms appeared, and we got started with that. We are a small structure; almost every morning, we have meetings with 2, 3, or the whole group together to define things a bit. I like to see what everyone is going to do during the day. I don't program much anymore; I keep an eye on the code and try to direct things, but I like this agile approach and seeing that every day, or every two days, or every three days, certain things have progressed, we can close off tasks, etc.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:43] What are the company's values today?

Stephane Pierret: [00:06:46] We are a small structure; there are five employees at the moment, all under 35 years old. I've even hired several people who have just graduated from university, who have a bachelor's, a master's, or even a doctorate. It's motivating; they also bring new ideas. That's something I like because, in the beginning, you have to supervise them, support them, show them a bit of my experience, and then work together so that everyone contributes their part to build what's needed, to achieve the platform we want and provide the service to the client that we want to provide.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:16] That's what's super interesting in companies: all these generations working together. You feel it strongly, it's great, do you really give young people a chance/space?

Stephane Pierret: [00:07:24] Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely. Yes, yes, yes!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:26] So it's important for you to hire young people, to coach them, to support them and show them your way of doing things, but also that they show you how they do things and it really becomes complementary.

Stephane Pierret: [00:07:35] Exactly, absolutely. Yes, yes.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:36] Digitization, we know, we've understood, there's a lot of competition, it can develop in different ways. But we were just talking about young people, young people who want to start out after their studies, who might want to develop platforms like yours, what would you say to these young people? What advice would you give them?

Stephane Pierret: [00:07:52] The advice I would give them is firstly, to have a dream, to have a dream and a passion for something, a service or a product they would like to develop. That's one thing; you shouldn't count your hours, so you shouldn't stop at those 38 hours; you have to be able to work 60 hours or so to really pursue your dreams and achieve them. And then the third option is perhaps to get yourself surrounded, supervised, by people with experience and by a number of services that exist in the Walloon Region or the Brussels Region, competitiveness clusters, other associations that exist and allow you to integrate into a business ecosystem.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:25] You recently called on PHCom, so now we're going to talk a bit more about the commercial role in your company. How is it going currently? How have you been operating for years, since 2008, how does it go before calling in an external partner?

Stephane Pierret: [00:08:38] Let's say I'm the one who does a bit of the work of finding new clients, prospects, and things like that, based on people I've worked with in the past, based on organizations I'm part of, or where the company is registered, like for example we're members of Infopole in the Walloon Region, the Mecatech cluster, Agoria. We establish links with other companies and sometimes that leads to a possible prospect, a possible contact, a possible project. But, as a result, that's not really my job either; I'm more passionate about programming and developing a service for a client, and I'm probably less cut out for that than doing the commercial part or the prospecting part. Hence the idea of contacting a company like PHCom, which was actually recommended to me. I didn't know them; I came to them through a recommendation. Because they, well, we're at the beginning of the project, but I immediately feel that they have the expertise, they know exactly how to go about it. I expect quite a lot from it because: one, I'm going to learn things, how they do it, how I should do it. The second thing, well, is contacts, and I hope it will lead to new clients and new projects.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:41] What have you already tried in terms of sales? Are there any failures or successes you could share with us?

Stephane Pierret: [00:09:46] In fact, it's always a challenge because, generally, when you meet a new company, even if they have a need and are interested in what you provide... In fact, generally, the decision-making process to start something always takes six months, even a year, even a year and a half. I sometimes have clients where two years pass between the first contact and the project. Simply because you have to be there at the right time, in the right place, and the need has to be really pressing for the client for them to invest. So, you have to be very patient; that's the characteristic, you have to be very patient, and that's it. You don't decide overnight that you need X new clients in three months; that won't work in software, it doesn't work like that in software! It's really a long-term task, a long-term relationship that you have to build. Trust, because generally the client needs to trust us, because these aren't budgets of 1000, or 2000, or €3,000 where they can say, "If it doesn't work out, well, too bad, I've lost €3,000." Here, we're talking about somewhat larger budgets; before convincing a company to release a budget, there has to be trust, so there have to be references. You have to show that you've already done something similar, or that you have something similar, that can serve as a basis for a new project.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:51] What would make you really satisfied with collaborating with us? Is there a very specific expectation? Yes, of course, getting more clients, increasing the number of prospects, potential clients. Is there anything else you'd like to share with us?

Stephane Pierret: [00:11:03] As I was saying, there's already learning quite a few things. Indeed, getting new clients. And then afterwards, why not, if it goes well, maybe we'll embark on a second mission to get more after that. There you go, but let's do the first one first, and we'll see what it leads to!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:18] First there's a test phase (Stéphane Pierret: Exactly) and then afterwards you'll see how it goes (Stéphane Pierret: Yes) with the teams and if results are delivered.

Stephane Pierret: [00:11:24] Exactly.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:25] Could you already say something about this first week? Have you had any feedback yet? How is the start of the mission currently going?

Stephane Pierret: [00:11:31] Last week's meeting was actually to explain to me a bit how it was going to happen, based on what tools we would be able to use for exchange, the data at PHCom that I had access to, to help select contacts to reach out to, to try to define the targets together. The targets in terms of company size, type of company, people within the companies to contact. That's what last week's meeting was for, and so next week, we're actually going to get more into the concrete details, to see how the first contacts will be made, with which companies, etc.!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:05] I know it's the beginning of the mission and we all still need to get to know each other. You, PHCom, your teams, etc. But if you had to define PHCom in three words, what would you say?

Stephane Pierret: [00:12:14] Involved, I would say understanding. You can see they really try to understand our business and our request. Understanding, empathetic, organized. Very organized, you can see there's a well-oiled process or structure behind it to carry out this kind of project.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:29] Thank you very much Stéphane for this interview! In any case, I wish you all the best for the future, and we'll keep our fingers crossed that everything goes super well with PHCom, but I have no doubt about that.

Stephane Pierret: [00:12:36] Thank you very much. Thank you.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:38] Thank you Stéphane.

• [00:01:03] Introduction and context
• [00:01:21] What is Corona Print?
• [00:01:46] The history of Corona Print
• [00:02:14] Technological aspects
• [00:02:38] Environmental impact
• [00:03:32] Corona Print catalogue
• [00:04:15] A closer look at Corona Print
• [00:04:46] Family handover
• [00:05:08] Market and competition
• [00:05:48] A message to young people
• [00:05:57] Corona Print is hiring
• [00:06:36] Corona Print before PHCom
• [00:07:18] Corona Print with PHCom
• [00:07:58] Sales experiences
• [00:08:40] Corona Print’s expectations
• [00:09:16] Why PHCom?
• [00:10:17] Who handled sales before?
• [00:10:53] Corona Print’s customers
• [00:11:51] Episode wrap-up

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:12] Hello and welcome to this new episode of the Performance and Harmony podcast produced by PHCom in the transforma studio in Brussels, with the technical assistance of The Podcast Factory Org.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:22] The Performance and Harmony podcast is intended for marketing and sales managers as well as company directors with commercial functions.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:30] Every month, we share good experiences in finding new customers for companies active in business to business.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:36] You can find each episode on the PHCom .be P.H.C.O.M website, and also on all good podcast platforms.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:45] You can support this podcast and promote its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, a comment, a share.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:52] The answering machine is always active so that you can leave us a message, we will answer it with great pleasure.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:57] You can also make an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane by going to PHCom .be

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:03] See you soon.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:03] Hello Nicolas and Quentin, I am delighted to receive you today as part of our future collaboration with PHCom. How are you?

Quentin Moreau: [00:01:10] Hello Camille, I'm very well.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:11] Do you feel good here? Are you comfortable?

Quentin Moreau: [00:01:14] Ah, it's great, nice place!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:16] Is this an exercise you have already done? Talking like that, behind a microphone?

Nicolas Moreau: [00:01:19] Sometimes, but not that often.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:21] Ok, we'll do the exercise together today. So tell me, why are you here today, and above all, what is Corona Print?

Quentin Moreau: [00:01:28] We are here to talk about us, it seems. Corona Print is a company that makes plastic cards, and prints printed plastic cards. We make the plastic card, we print it for the customer if necessary, but we also sell printers that allow the card to be printed so that the customer can do it themselves.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:46] Tell me a little about the history of this company.

Nicolas Moreau: [00:01:49] Corona Print started in 82. It was our dad who started it by printing with the techniques of the time, on paper first, and they quickly turned to plastic cards because the plastic card market was booming. And very quickly technologies were added to the printing, which now makes us more of a technology company rather than a simple printing company to put colors on the PVC.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:14] You were talking to me about technology, what do you mean by that?

Nicolas Moreau: [00:02:16] In addition to the printing that we see with the naked eye on the card, on the PVC, white at the start, comes the printing and inside the card, there is a chip. Different kinds of chips that can be encoded in different ways. And in there, our great specialty is this encoding for the highest security, the greatest flexibility, compatibility with all access and identification systems.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:38] Currently, we are still in an era where, well, ecology is super important, whether it is us on a daily basis or companies, we must pay attention. Are your badges made of plastic? How do you make them?

Quentin Moreau: [00:02:49] Traditionally, the PVC badge is made of PVC. So PVC has a bad reputation and rightly so, but PVC is recyclable. So we already invite our customers, who can, to collect the badges after use, bring them back to us and we offer the recycling service. Our PVC cards that we recycle become industrial pipes in specific areas, etc. But we ourselves offer our customers, even before the possible recycling of a used badge, but we offer our customers to make badges in recycled PVC. And then we also have alternative possibilities, we make wooden cards for events for example, cardboard cards, PET cards which is already a more environmentally friendly plastic. We have all sorts of alternatives that are nice to use.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:32] But do you only make badges and are there only printers to print these badges or are there other things in the catalog that you sell or that you set up?

Quentin Moreau: [00:03:40] We have a super corny slogan, which everyone has taken up since, no I think we took it up. It's "Much more than plastic card". The plastic card is the central product, we have plastic card printers which are really our second product, but then we obviously have a fairly coherent catalog that revolves around the plastic card. Obviously, we sell lanyards, neck straps that allow the badge to be worn, and card holders that extend the durability of the card. This is how, for example, a few public transport companies in Belgium order hundreds of thousands of card holders from us which allow them to protect the Mobib card. But we sell all sorts of accessories that go very well, the yoyo of the rollers, etc.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:15] Where are you located? And how many employees do you have at Corona Print? How does it work internally, the internal organization?

Quentin Moreau: [00:04:21] We are located in Forêt, not far from the Gare du Midi. We are a small team only, today we are only five, and internally it works like a family business so everyone works in synergy. There is the one who is more specialized in graphics, there is the one who is more specialized in technology precisely, for everything that is encoding, we have a customer manager, we have one who does more of the administrative work, but everyone lends a hand, we are almost all competent in the different fields.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:46] Is your dad still with you? You say it's a family business, are there several of you from the family working in the company?

Nicolas Moreau: [00:04:51] Officially, we took over the company in December.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:54] Bravo! Congratulations!

Nicolas Moreau: [00:04:56] That's it, and so it's Quentin and I who are the new bosses. And to the question of whether dad is still there, yes, in the sense that he still comes to the workplace very regularly to advise us.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:08] To recap, what you do, your main scoop, is really access badges in companies, that's why we talk about technology with a chip in the badges. How is it going with the competition? What would you say to your biggest competitor?

Quentin Moreau: [00:05:20] I'm not used to prospecting with my competitors, but we are very strong in the knowledge of the chip. We have been working on it, encoding it, securing it for years now. What do I want to say to my competitors? That I'm better than them!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:35] Are there many competitors on the market?

Quentin Moreau: [00:05:37] Belgium is a very small country, so we have a few competitors in Belgium but it is true that we are in a market where foreign competitors can possibly come and take a look. But we have a lot of partners after that.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:48] What would you say to young people who, after their studies, are starting out? What advice would you give them if they were starting out in your sector of activity?

Quentin Moreau: [00:05:54] Ah, I would say come to us because we are looking to hire.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:57] You are currently recruiting! (Nicolas Moreau: Absolutely) But what type of profile are you recruiting for the moment?

Quentin Moreau: [00:06:00] We need someone to do the productions, the small production that we have to do on a daily basis for our customers, whether it is printing, whether it is printing with encoding, whether it is personalization. Because often the badges come with the printing of a photo, a first and last name, so you have to be able to manipulate a database, but then it requires rigor. It still requires a bit of a technical side, because you have to know how to handle quite a few different tools, relatively modern machines, programs that evolve a lot. Between what I was doing ten years ago when I started working in the company and today it's impressive, the number of things, tools that have changed, you have to be able to evolve with all that.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:36] Now, we are going to talk more about the customer, commercial aspect, how is it going? How do you find customers today? How do you prospect?

Nicolas Moreau: [00:06:43] We have a large number of historical customers who, when we look at their first orders, often date from before 2000, others well before, but who may have changed their name in the meantime. So there is a good base of loyal customers, who have even had the opportunity to go and find other suppliers and who have returned appreciating our ability to adapt to new challenges in terms of security and technology. And in addition, we have customers who necessarily come by word of mouth. And now, very soon, we will broaden our customer horizons thanks to PHCom which will help us in this process...

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:18] Great! So, that allows me to jump right in. What do you actually expect from PHCom? So, the collaboration will start soon, what do you mainly expect from our profession and what we will bring you?

Quentin Moreau: [00:07:28] The recruitment of new customers, we are too focused on our current customer base. It brings us quite a bit of work because each project is recurring but with new possibilities, so it's true that we have work, but we don't work at all with the customers who are with our competitors or the customers who don't necessarily imagine needing our products. We don't know these people, we are not yet used to contacting them, recruiting them, finding them. And that's what we expect from PHCom, it's from this collaboration to learn how to go and see these customers, learn how to find them.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:58] On a commercial level, because you have been in business since '82, can you explain some successes or failures you have encountered in sales, in internal prospecting, are there things you could share with us? It's even interesting for the PHCom teams to know.

Nicolas Moreau: [00:08:13] So far, we can generally only talk about successes, given that the projects that we saw as well-developed and very interesting, as a project, as soon as we took the time to get involved and prepare a good collaboration with the client, in almost 100% of cases, the project worked because we identified the client's need in advance. So as soon as there was a request, we responded with a coherent offer and project, and the project was always a success.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:40] How does collaborating with PHCom meet a need? So yes, we understand that you want to meet new people, new customers, broaden your horizons, move a little outside the framework of the loyalty you have with customers for years. Is there anything else you expect?

Quentin Moreau: [00:08:54] We have taken over the company and so we are, it seems, the best ambassadors, we will see on the ground, for our own products, but I expect PHCom to help us, to accompany us on the ground. Approaching a customer who is expecting us is easy. Approaching a customer who wasn't necessarily expecting us is very nice, it's a challenge, but if we are accompanied by professionals it will be fantastic.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:16] What was the trigger for you to choose a collaborator, an external partner on a commercial level, how did it happen? How do you know PHCom in fact?

Quentin Moreau: [00:09:23] In fact, PHCom called one day while recruiting new customers and I was there, I almost slammed the door but I thought it was nice, the guy was polite so I said to myself "I'm not going to slam the phone down, I'm going to answer politely". And at the end of the discussion that lasted an hour, he said to me "So you know how we do it with potential prospects? We are kind, we are efficient, we are pleasant". That was the beginning of a collaboration.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:44] That's what I was going to say, so you really participated in the prospecting then! You thought Great, but now you know how we are going to be prospectors for you?

Quentin Moreau: [00:09:51] It was crazy, it was very nice, it's based on experience.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:53] Too cool. What will be the primary satisfaction of collaborating with PHCom? I presume that in addition you had an hour-long discussion with one of our prospectors.

Quentin Moreau: [00:10:02] I can't wait to be in the field and make my first customer as a result of this collaboration, to see what it's like to show up at someone's place who isn't expecting me and finally convince them. I have a lot of expectations about that, but I imagine there will be a lot of pleasure in having made a first customer like that.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:17] So it's a real challenge, is it something you already do? Are you also in "sales" in the company? Do you sometimes also pick up your phone to try to contact new people? How does it work then?

Nicolas Moreau: [00:10:27] Having been in the company for almost 20 years now, I mainly meet clients for technical sales, so the client approach is something very classic for me. And the approach of pushing the limits beyond the apparent limits, finding a solution, even when there isn't one, is something that has fueled me for 20 years in the company. And so here, doing it at a commercial level is a new approach, but one that really fits into this spirit of renewal and discovery.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:53] Your clientele, it's all types of companies in fact, mainly what are your clients, who are your clients?

Quentin Moreau: [00:10:58] We work mainly with companies that themselves offer services to end customers. For example, access control companies, or we have companies that offer customer loyalty type services etc. So they come to us to get the loyalty cards, and they offer a complete package to a store, a chain of stores, etc. But there you go, access control companies are our daily customers for producing badges for end customers. Now, it happens that we also have the direct customer, for various reasons, sometimes because the end customer themselves manages their security but needs badges, they come to us! Then after that in the customers, we have the small club that wants 50 cards for its members, we have the large chain of stores, we can have a graphic designer, a designer because he wants badges for a specific project. We really have quite a few different profiles, but it's true that we have some loyal customers that we see almost every day, who themselves are generally resellers.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:51] Thank you very much Nicolas and Quentin, we were delighted to receive you today and all the best for our collaboration and especially for you who just took over the company in December. I wish you the greatest possible success.

Quentin Moreau: [00:12:01] Thank you Camille.

• [00:01:03] Introduction and context
• [00:01:13] Introduction to Call International
• [00:02:00] The service offering
• [00:02:35] The story of Call International
• [00:03:49] How does it work?
• [00:06:33] How does Call International stand out?
• [00:09:25] Is talent needed to learn a language?
• [00:11:58] Digital, AI… and the human aspect at Call International
• [00:13:33] 20 years of collaboration: why choose PHCom?
• [00:15:01] How does working with PHCom boost productivity?
• [00:15:53] A story from the collaboration with PHCom?
• [00:16:52] And the future?
• [00:19:49] Three words to describe the collaboration with PHCom?
• [00:20:44] Closing the episode

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:12] Hello and welcome to this new episode of the Performance and Harmony podcast produced by PHCom in the Transforma studio in Brussels, with technical support from The Podcast Factory Org.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:22] The Performance and Harmony podcast is intended for marketing and sales managers as well as company directors who take on commercial roles.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:30] Every month we share successful experiences in finding new clients for companies operating in the B2B space.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:36] You can find each episode on the PHCom.be website, and also on all major podcast platforms.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:45] You can support this podcast and boost its visibility by sharing it widely via a like, a comment, or a share.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:52] The voicemail is always active, so feel free to leave us a message—we'll be happy to reply.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:57] You can also schedule a meeting directly with Nadia or Stéphane by visiting PHCom.be

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:03] See you soon.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:03] Hello Valérie.

Valérie Gérard: [00:01:04] Hello Camille.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:05] How are you?

Valérie Gérard: [00:01:06] I'm doing well.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:06] So tell me, is this your first time recording a podcast in a studio?

Valérie Gérard: [00:01:10] First time ever—I've never done this before, so it's all new to me.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:13] Great! Today, we’re going to talk about Call International and PHCom. So, tell us a bit—what exactly does Call International do?

Valérie Gérard: [00:01:22] Call International is a language and communication training centre that’s been around for over 35 years. We've grown quite a bit and now have three centres in Belgium—our original one in Waterloo, one in downtown Brussels on Avenue Louise, and another base in Liège at the Grand Poste. It's a lovely place where our trainers can work from, whether to provide on-site training in companies, host clients for one-on-one or small group sessions, or offer online courses—especially since that trend has really taken off post-COVID.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:00] So it’s language training, right? (Valérie Gérard: Yes). Trainers go into companies to teach languages and help people learn new ones?

Valérie Gérard: [00:02:06] Exactly. We mainly work in B2B—about 98% of our work is with companies. We help employees improve their language skills, whether in English, Dutch, or French—our three main offerings. But we also teach German, Italian, Spanish, Russian, and Chinese on request. We do offer more exotic options, but they’re much less in demand.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:35] What’s the story behind Call International? How long has it existed? How many of you are there across the three sites? And why the name?

Valérie Gérard: [00:02:42] Call International—about the name, first of all, it has nothing to do with call centres, which didn’t exist back then. It originally meant "Center for Accelerated Language Learning". Why accelerated? Because our innovative method helps you learn better, faster, and more playfully. It’s super interactive and dynamic. The method is modelled on how children naturally acquire languages—first understanding and speaking, not reading and writing. We recreate that environment for adults. Adults are just big kids—they love having fun when they learn, and that’s more effective than grammar drills. We focus on spontaneity and speaking. Even with a very basic foundation, if people can play with the language and use it freely, they quickly start communicating. That’s what drives us.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:49] It really makes you want to join when I hear you talk like that—I'm not great with languages, but the focus on spontaneity and fun sounds awesome. Your training must be so cool. (Valérie Gérard: Oh, it is!). Are they in modules? How does it work when you go into companies?

Valérie Gérard: [00:04:02] We often work in modules tailored to the learners’ needs. What sets Call International apart is how we support learners. Everyone is unique—you said it yourself. We all learn differently. Some are experienced multilinguals; others have barely touched a second language. Before training begins, we identify what holds them back or accelerates them. Then we select the right training formula. The goal isn’t bilingualism—unless you’re a linguist like me. For employees, it’s about using a second language with confidence, removing communication barriers. That’s what we aim for—practical tools, at the right level, step by step. For example, when I started at Call International, I was teaching French as a foreign language to Americans, Japanese, etc. One of the first expressions we teach is “Je voudrais”—a polite request. Everyone uses it. But “Je voudrais” is grammatically complex—it’s the conditional, with a stem change. Explaining that to a Japanese learner is a nightmare.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:59] Total nightmare

Valérie Gérard: [00:05:59] Exactly—you lose them immediately. But if you play a game with real objects—things they’ve seen before—and get them to repeat “Je voudrais un pain, une pomme, un cahier, un rendez-vous”, they pick it up automatically. We don’t explain the grammar—they don’t care. What they need is to ask for what they want and be understood.