• [00:00:21] Introducing Finrack
• [00:00:28] What does Finrack do?
• [00:01:38] What sets Finrack apart?
• [00:01:57] Differences between Belgium and France
• [00:03:12] Today's biggest commercial challenges
• [00:03:39] Building long-term customer relationships
• [00:04:06] What makes a great salesperson?
• [00:04:31] Finrack's commercial objectives
• [00:04:43] The future of Finrack
• [00:05:05] Finrack's greatest strength
• [00:05:36] Closing remarks

[00:00:19] Caroline Gasia: Hi David.

[00:00:20] David Van der Looven: Hi Caroline.

Introducing Finrack

[00:00:21] Caroline Gasia: Great to have you as our guest today on our podcast for PHCom. First, tell us a bit about Finrack.

What does Finrack do?

[00:00:28] David Van der Looven: First of all, I am also very happy to be here with you. Finrack is a Belgian fintech based in Brussels that operates across Europe in a very specific niche: asset financing, and more specifically, the financing of stock, of inventory. Inventory actually ties up a company's working capital; there is capital locked in there that cannot be used anywhere else. We have seen that during COVID, just-in-time delivery has been on the decline, and more and more inventory is being built up worldwide, so stock levels are rising globally, which means more capital is tied up. And we started looking for a way to make that tied-up capital partly liquid again. And what does Finrack actually do? We purchase the inventory, and the client can buy back their stock with an exclusive buyback option at the same value at which it was sold. So, as they need their inventory, they can also buy those stocks back. This is done very smoothly in a digital way. So there is... What lies behind it may be complicated, but in practice, it is very simple, and they have additional resources.

What sets Finrack apart?

[00:01:38] Caroline Gasia: What distinguishes you from the competition today?

[00:01:41] David Van der Looven: Well, when we started looking at opportunities to finance stock worldwide, we were very surprised to see that there are actually very few instruments for stock financing. That is why we jumped into that gap. And honestly, there is virtually no competition in that area.

Differences between Belgium and France

[00:01:57] Caroline Gasia: Do you see differences between the French, Belgian, or other markets?

[00:02:00] David Van der Looven: Finrack is actually present in the eurozone. The countries we chose to develop from the start are actually the Benelux and France. France is an important one because there is a more digital mindset among entrepreneurs there, and also, for example, unlike in Belgium where you have a fairly good level of service from the banks. While you have a quasi-monopoly of five banks serving the market, you don't have that in France. And what do we actually see there? That entrepreneurs will consult a bank when looking for financing, but at the same time will also consult a network of independent financial brokers, credit brokers, to find a solution. And it is actually that network of independent intermediaries that we work with and that actually promotes Finrack in France, and that works very well. For a start-up like Finrack, it is of course a very good sales channel, because you are dealing with a variable cost. And if financing is provided, then revenue is generated and you pay a commission to that intermediary. If they do nothing, then you have no cost. Unlike other channels where you often have to invest upfront and you don't know what the return will be and when that return will come.

Today's biggest commercial challenges

[00:03:12] Caroline Gasia: What are the biggest commercial challenges today?

[00:03:15] David Van der Looven: The challenge, of course, when you come up with a new product, regardless of whether it is financial or not, is to market that product and develop sales channels. And we look for any sales channel in doing so, but as a young company, you also have to control your budgets. And yes, we do some testing to develop new sales channels, such as cold calling, for which we started working with PHCom.

Building long-term customer relationships

[00:03:39] Caroline Gasia: How do you ensure that customers remain loyal in the long term?

[00:03:42] David Van der Looven: Yes. Retaining customer relationships, the customers we have—what is very important is simply offering very good service, and also maintaining contact with your customer. We are a digital company, we usually do not see our customers physically, but if you combine that with a video call or a phone call, which establishes your presence with the customer, you still build a very strong relationship.

What makes a great salesperson?

[00:04:06] Caroline Gasia: What competencies do you think a good sales representative absolutely must have today?

[00:04:10] David Van der Looven: Very simple, an adage for a good sales representative is: "don't promise too much and deliver more than you promised", it's actually about expectation management. It is very simple, if a client expects a lot and you don't deliver, they are dissatisfied. If you promise little and deliver more, then you are a god to your client, and that is what we ultimately strive for.

Finrack's commercial objectives

[00:04:31] Caroline Gasia: What are Finrack's commercial objectives today?

[00:04:34] David Van der Looven: Yes, the commercial objective for Finrack is of course to grow, grow, grow, grow and become as big as possible. So yes, finding and acquiring new clients.

The future of Finrack

[00:04:43] Caroline Gasia: How do you see the future of Finrack? What plans are on the agenda?

[00:04:47] David Van der Looven: What is planned for the future of Finrack is that we grow bigger, that we can cover more countries geographically, and that we also further fine-tune the financing product and perhaps create a number of sub-products that fit well into certain niches in the market.

Finrack's greatest strength

[00:05:05] Caroline Gasia: In your opinion, what is Finrack's greatest strength today?

[00:05:08] David Van der Looven: Yes, the unique selling point of the Finrack model is actually the valuation algorithm that we developed to have a correct valuation of the stock in real time, at any given moment. Nobody at this moment is capable of doing that, and that is also what banks are now starting to look at and consult us on, whether they could potentially make use of this algorithm to improve their risk management.

Closing remarks

[00:05:36] Caroline Gasia: Thank you very much, David, and best of luck.

[00:05:39] David Van der Looven: You're very welcome.

• [00:00:00] Introduction
• [00:01:07] Introducing Finrack
• [00:01:20] Why inventory financing has become a strategic business challenge
• [00:03:16] How the Finrack platform works
• [00:03:43] An innovation with virtually no competition
• [00:04:07] The commercial challenges of a fintech
• [00:04:58] Distribution channels and the role of financial intermediaries
• [00:06:03] Finding the right customers
• [00:06:19] Why the French market is more receptive
• [00:06:48] Convincing private investors
• [00:07:27] Essential sales skills
• [00:07:52] Building long-term customer loyalty in a digital environment
• [00:08:34] The mantra "Underpromise & Overdeliver"
• [00:08:47] Why Finrack works with PHCom
• [00:10:09] Confidentiality and trust in business financing
• [00:10:42] Cold calling as a business development strategy
• [00:11:19] Finrack's future ambitions
• [00:11:43] Finrack's inventory valuation algorithm: a unique competitive advantage
• [00:13:08] Conclusion

[00:00:13] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello and welcome to this new episode of the podcast "Performance, Harmonie & Commercial", produced by PHCom in the transforma bxl studio, with technical support from "The Podcast Factory Org"

[00:00:23] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The "Performance, Harmonie & Commercial" podcast is intended for marketing and sales managers, as well as business leaders with commercial roles.

[00:00:32] Stéphane Depaepe: Every month, we share with you best practices in searching for new clients for businesses active in business-to-business.

[00:00:38] Nadia Ben Jelloun: You can find each episode on the PHCom dot be website. P.H.C.om, and also on all good podcast platforms.

[00:00:47] Stéphane Depaepe: You can support this podcast and promote its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, a comment, a share.

[00:00:55] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The voicemail is still active so you can leave us a message, we'll answer with great pleasure.

[00:01:00] Stéphane Depaepe: You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane by going to PHCom dot be.

[00:01:06] Nadia Ben Jelloun: See you soon.

Introducing Finrack

[00:01:07] Camille de Meeûs: Hello David.

[00:01:08] David Van der Looven: Hello Camille.

[00:01:09] Camille de Meeûs: We are super happy to welcome you today to our PHCom podcast. So, here we are going to talk about business development and your activity. What do you actually do at Finrack?

Why inventory financing has become a strategic business challenge

[00:01:20] David Van der Looven: Finrack is a Belgian Fintech based in Brussels, which has found an innovative solution to finance stock.

[00:01:29] Camille de Meeûs: What do we mean by stock, concretely?

[00:01:31] David Van der Looven: All the material that is stored for a company's production or sale. In fact, the stock was on the road; it was the just-in-time principle. And when Covid hit, we have seen global inventories rise ever since. There was Covid, which obviously disrupted the transport chain, but afterwards plenty of events reinforced this trend. There was the big ship that blocked the canal with its containers, there is the war in Ukraine, and then geopolitically there is a tendency to stockpile things that have become a bit scarcer, so that's why inventories are rising globally. When we looked into whether it was financeable, we saw that there are very few tools to finance a company's inventory. And a company's inventory is ultimately capital—money that is tied up and cannot be used for working capital, to grow the company. So, we started looking for a solution for this, and actually what Finrack does is inventory sale and buyback. So, Finrack buys the company's inventory, and gradually the company can buy back its inventory at the same price. What is fundamental is the valuation, because behind it there are investors who put up their money, and it is with this money that we buy the inventory at a valuation that Finrack will perform. Because we need to protect our investors; if the company runs into trouble and goes into liquidation, well, ultimately the repurchase option, which is exclusive to the seller, will become void, and Finrack will have to sell this inventory to compensate its investors.

How the Finrack platform works

[00:03:16] Camille de Meeûs: And how do all these exchanges, all these partnerships work? Is it through a platform that you have created?

[00:03:21] David Van der Looven: Of course, it's an online platform; everything happens online. Also for inventory tracking, we build connectors with the digital inventory management tool, so we have real-time information on the inventory. How it moves, what is sold, what comes in, so we actually monitor this inventory in real-time.

[00:03:41] Camille de Meeûs: Is there a lot of competition in this field?

An innovation with virtually no competition

[00:03:43] David Van der Looven: When you look at it, there are almost no inventory financing tools; it is something that hasn't really been addressed. So no, there is almost no competition; it is something innovative and new.

[00:03:54] Camille de Meeûs: So we can feel there is a real need then (David Van der Looven: Exactly, exactly), you arrived at the right time?

[00:03:57] David Van der Looven: Exactly, exactly. Because a company that has freed up the funds locked in its inventory can do other things, such as focusing on the company's growth.

The commercial challenges of a fintech

[00:04:07] Camille de Meeûs: Now we are going to talk more about the commercial aspect within Finrack. What are the current challenges?

[00:04:13] David Van der Looven: The biggest challenges for every startup and also Fintech is finding distribution channels; that is the major weakness of a Fintech compared to banks. They have a huge client network, while we come in with a new product that we have to bring to market, but we also need to find distribution channels, sales channels that are profitable. At Finrack, we've been very pragmatic; we launched in several countries, we've been active since September 2024, and we try to work as much as possible with financing intermediaries. As a result, they are paid a commission, and for us it is a variable cost, so that is very advantageous for developing the company. If there are no sales, there are no costs. If there are sales, you pay a commission but you have revenue coming in. And we can see that in Europe, in the countries where we are present—the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France—it has developed very strongly in France. So an entrepreneur in France will consult, yes, their bank, but alongside that, they will consult independent intermediaries specialized in business financing. So, there is strong traction there, and I must also say, I previously ran another Fintech and we had already developed this network, so we are partly falling back on this same network. And that is mainly our area of development today. Another area is neobanks looking for interesting services for their clients, and obviously everything related to digital distribution channels. It's a bit more complicated because there you often have to invest a lot upfront, without knowing what will come out of it and when. So we do a bit of both, but in a moderate way. But our strongest traction is the network of professional financing intermediaries, let's say.

Finding the right customers

[00:06:03] Camille de Meeûs: And so in your field, finding the right clients at the right time takes time, I imagine?

[00:06:08] David Van der Looven: It takes time, yes, it's an investment, indeed.

[00:06:11] Camille de Meeûs: We were just talking about France. How can we explain this difference in commercialization? Why is it, quote-unquote, easier in France than in Belgium? Because it's a larger country? Because...

Why the French market is more receptive

[00:06:19] David Van der Looven: Not necessarily that, it's a bit of a mindset. But there is also a reality: if we take the example of Belgium, we have a near-monopoly of five banks serving the market, and serving it quite well. In France, it's a completely different situation. And that means that the entrepreneur there, first of all, I find them to be more digital, and second of all, since the French banking market is not as well-served as in Belgium, they are looking.

[00:06:45] Camille de Meeûs: So there is more of a need, actually?

[00:06:47] David Van der Looven: There is more of a need, yes.

Convincing private investors

[00:06:48] Camille de Meeûs: What is your greatest commercial success?

[00:06:50] David Van der Looven: Finrack's greatest commercial success is not on the side of the inventory sellers—those are the parties who need money. But I would say it's more on the investor side, private investors, also organized as companies, who are ready to put their money into buying inventory. Since Finrack is young—we started in September 2024—we don't have a long track record there. So really, the greatest commercial success is succeeding in convincing investors to put their money into purchasing inventory.

Essential sales skills

[00:07:27] Camille de Meeûs: What sales skills seem essential to you today?

[00:07:30] David Van der Looven: As a Fintech and a startup, we are quite flexible, we aren't rigid, so on the inventory seller side, we are a young company with an innovative concept, and we adapt to clients as we go. What are the actual needs in the market? You shouldn't create a very rigid product; you need to adapt it gradually to the real needs of the market.

Building long-term customer loyalty in a digital environment

[00:07:52] Camille de Meeûs: Speaking of clients, how do you retain your clients over the long term?

[00:07:57] David Van der Looven: Providing good service. If customers are well served, even if you are more expensive than the others, they stay longer, that's it. And of course, even if we are a digital company, it's about having a certain direct presence. It's not physical, but calling your clients from time to time to see if everything is okay, to maintain the connection, is super important.

[00:08:21] Camille de Meeûs: To have real flexibility, availability.

[00:08:24] David Van der Looven: The biggest compliment is when a client tells you, "Yes, we work digitally, we've never met. But there's human warmth behind this digital company."

The mantra "Underpromise & Overdeliver"

[00:08:34] Camille de Meeûs: David, do you have a quote, or a punchline, or a mantra that you like in sales, something that you repeat often?

[00:08:40] David Van der Looven: The main thing for a successful sale is very simple: underpromise and overdeliver, you have to manage expectations well.

Why Finrack works with PHCom

[00:08:47] Camille de Meeûs: Okay, awesome. Now we're going to talk about the collaboration with PHCom. Finrack has existed since September 2024, when did it start with PHCom and why did you reach out to PHCom?

[00:08:56] David Van der Looven: Finrack started in September 2024, so obviously we are beginning to look at how to develop the sales side. What was most obvious for us was the networks of independent financing intermediaries, credit and financing brokers. But obviously we are also looking to develop digital channels, and we have also looked at other possible channels. One channel was cold-calling, trying to get data on companies, and sorting this data in such a way that we reach potential clients who have a desire to finance their inventory. And that is how I got in touch with PHCom in early 2025. We did a test in Belgium, on a sample of companies, and it was not very conclusive at first. It must also be said that our sales cycle is quite long. But anyway, there were some initial results, so we decided, at the end of 2025, to run a second test that is currently underway, and which is focused more on France, as we know that this target audience in France is much more interested because they are underserved. And so, it's underway.

Confidentiality and trust in business financing

[00:10:09] Camille de Meeûs: Everything related to financial aspects and investments, those are still quite touchy subjects. Is there a specific way to approach these people?

[00:10:16] David Van der Looven: Yes, it's touchy, but those who need financing are ready to do whatever it takes. Of course, we also work with non-disclosure agreements, so that the client's data is well protected. In practice, it's not something that creates a major bottleneck, no; the client wants to get financing, and if we set up the framework properly with the non-disclosure agreement, it goes over quite easily, yeah.

Cold calling as a business development strategy

[00:10:42] Camille de Meeûs: Do you think that working with PHCom has allowed you to save time, in a certain sense?

[00:10:47] David Van der Looven: Certainly because cold-calling is really a very specific line of work. First of all, finding people to do that yourself is no easy task. And obviously, by working with PHC om and doing tests, we don't really invest in it; instead, it is once again a variable cost. So, having a partner who specializes in cold-calling and whom you can call upon on an ad hoc basis... It is much more advantageous for a young company like ours.

Finrack's future ambitions

[00:11:19] Camille de Meeûs: What is your next ambition, your next sales objective? What can we wish you?

[00:11:23] David Van der Looven: That the second test with PHCom shows results that will allow us to keep working this channel, which would obviously be an additional channel. The ultimate goal of Finrack is obviously growth, and also to evolve towards a SaaS model, so that it is simple plug-and-play for our clients.

Finrack's inventory valuation algorithm: a unique competitive advantage

[00:11:43] Camille de Meeûs: What is Finrack's main strength today?

[00:11:45] David Van der Looven: The very unique thing about the Finrack model is the valuation algorithm we developed. So, this algorithm makes it possible to determine the purchase price of the inventory from the inventory seller, from the client seeking financing. But it must also protect investors, ensuring that the inventory they put their money into and its purchase price hold up. And ultimately, what do we need to do with this valuation algorithm? It is to have a price that allows us, if the seller ever goes into liquidation, to know we can sell this inventory in the short term at at least the price we bought it for, to compensate the investors. And this doesn't exist anywhere else in the market. We have no sector restrictions, so we deal with any kind of inventory—it's very diverse—and the expertise we are developing with this algorithm is being able to value any inventory at a suitable price. And we can see that a few banks are already approaching us, and they are interested in this exact algorithm, because today they sometimes grant credit based on the business assets where the inventory is also located, but they have no idea of the value of that inventory. It's a bit like, they take the balance sheet, which is a snapshot of the inventory at a certain point in time, but tomorrow it could be different; they don't have this capability to track the inventory in real time, so there you go.

Conclusion

[00:13:08] Camille de Meeûs: Thank you, David.

[00:13:09] David Van der Looven: Thank you, Camille.

• [00:00:00] Intro — PHCom at the transforma bxl studio
• [00:01:07] What is OkDo: multi-technical B2B maintenance
• [00:01:30] A typical day: requests, planning, interventions
• [00:02:03] Standing out: doing it in-house, not promising “everything”
• [00:02:46] Getting started: finding clients, quality, reporting
• [00:03:35] Building loyalty: specialists vs “handyman”
• [00:05:02] Trades & types of work OkDo delivers
• [00:06:06] Obligations & compliance: fire safety, electrical, plans
• [00:06:43] Field observations: standards, emergency lighting, prevention
• [00:08:11] Without a sales team: how OkDo grows its clients
• [00:09:36] Key challenge: time, and prospecting slowing things down
• [00:10:09] Why PHCom: context, scepticism, turning point
• [00:11:04] Results: more meetings, time saved, clients
• [00:11:20] Anecdote: prospecting… and a “network” surprise
• [00:12:31] Positive surprises: hidden networks, reaching the right contact
• [00:13:24] Sales skills: listening, questioning, staying honest
• [00:15:01] Goals: team responsibility + references & brands
• [00:16:24] PHCom in 3 words: speed, efficiency, professionalism
• [00:16:34] Outro

Intro — PHCom at the transforma bxl studio

[00:00:13] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello and welcome to this new episode of the podcast "Performance, Harmony & Sales" produced by PHCom in the "transforma bxl" studio in Brussels, with technical assistance from "The Podcast Factory Org".??

[00:00:23] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The "Performance, Harmony & Sales" Podcast is intended for marketing and sales managers as well as company executives taking on sales roles.

[00:00:32] Stéphane Depaepe: Every month, we share with you successful experiences regarding finding new clients for companies active in business-to-business.

[00:00:38] Nadia Ben Jelloun: You can find every episode on the site PHCom dot be, P.H.C.O.M, and also on all major podcast platforms.

[00:00:48] Stéphane Depaepe: You can support this podcast and boost its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, a comment, or a share.

[00:00:55] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The voicemail is always active so you can leave us a message; we will answer it with great pleasure.

[00:01:00] Stéphane Depaepe: You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane by going to phcom dot be.

[00:01:06] Nadia Ben Jelloun: See you soon.

What is OkDo: multi-technical B2B maintenance

[00:01:07] Camille de Meeûs: Hello Philippe.

[00:01:07] Philippe Vanschoubroek: Hello Camille.

[00:01:09] Camille de Meeûs: We are super happy to have you today in this new episode of PHCom. Let's start with your business. What, specifically, is "OKDO"?

[00:01:17] Philippe Vanschoubroek: So, "OKDO" is a company specialized in multi-technical maintenance, exclusively for B2B clients. So we work mainly for clients who own stores, nursing homes, or for property managers who manage buildings.

A typical day: requests, planning, interventions

[00:01:30] Camille de Meeûs: But specifically, what does a workday look like within "OKDO"?

[00:01:32] Philippe Vanschoubroek: Well, a workday at "OKDO" is mostly about handling all client requests. That is to say, today we have ten people in the office and 30 technicians on the road; we do more or less 20,000 interventions per year. What does that mean? It means that requests come in. For example, a store that has a problem with lights because they are too bright, or not working; it means the client sends an email or calls the office and asks for a technician to stop by as quickly as possible.

[00:01:57] Camille de Meeûs: Is there a lot of competition in your sector? If so, what differentiates you from the competition?

Standing out: doing it in-house, not promising “everything”

[00:02:03] Philippe Vanschoubroek: It all depends on what you call competition. There are very big firms that do many, many things, but ultimately—and this isn't a criticism—ultimately they don't do much themselves; they do a lot via subcontracting. So they promise to handle every possible technical aspect, but behind the scenes, there is obviously an organization creating schedules for a bunch of subcontractors. We work differently; we decided to offer only the work that we carry out ourselves. So that means: we have people on our payroll who are today truly specialized mainly in electricity, plumbing, interior finishing, roofing, and exterior works. And Handymen, as we call them, so, jacks-of-all-trades.

[00:02:42] Camille de Meeûs: What advice would you give to people today who would like to get started in the same business sector as you?

Getting started: finding clients, quality, reporting

[00:02:46] Philippe Vanschoubroek: I think there is actually a lot of advice to give. At the same time, we managed to get there in less than ten years simply because we saw there was a market, actually; there was real demand. And we did it little by little, meaning without clients and without initial technicians. The advice: well, firstly, you have to find the clients, obviously; you have to get the client interested. It has to be solid too, meaning that when a technician comes on site, he must do his job, and do it cleanly. The client also expects reporting, which means you don't just need a technician; you also need a system in the background that allows the client to verify if everything went well, because they aren't always on site. We work for certain networks that have more than 200 or 300, sometimes 500 stores, so the manager or the person requesting the work isn't on site, so they need to be able to verify afterwards if everything went well.

Building loyalty: specialists vs “handyman”

[00:03:35] Camille de Meeûs: Speaking of that, you mentioned the whole client aspect. How do things work at "OKDO" to ensure you retain your clients? How do you keep these clients in your database?

[00:03:45] Philippe Vanschoubroek: We are fortunate to have, I would say, very good technicians. Of course, there is inevitably a little turnover sometimes, but we focused very quickly on quality. Not the cheapest price—that doesn't mean we are the most expensive, but we are in the mid-range. But if clients are paying a certain price, it means they are also entitled to quality. We really focused very early on finding specialized people. I was speaking earlier about handymen—it's a bit of a pejorative term—and we have some, guys who can do a bit of everything. But we understood very quickly that when clients have an electrical problem, they want an electrician to come by, not a handyman doing a small odd job. So you have to see the intervention through to the end, and for that, you need specialized people.

[00:04:24] Camille de Meeûs: A handyman is someone versatile, it's about versatility (Philippe Vanschoubroek: Yes), someone who can do several things (Philippe Vanschoubroek: Yes); they aren't a specialist.

[00:04:31] Philippe Vanschoubroek: He isn't a specialist in a specific field, so indeed he is a generalist. A handyman is a technician who, for example, comes into a store and does a bunch of little things that others don't want to do. That means: replacing a tile, changing a trap, changing a light bulb, and oiling a squeaky door—that's a handyman. But indeed, he isn't a specialist in everything; if there is really a more serious problem, or more substantial work to be done, it's better to have a specialist.

[00:04:58] Camille de Meeûs: But what are the other specialties your technicians offer?

Trades & types of work OkDo delivers

[00:05:02] Philippe Vanschoubroek: You have to understand that the handyman aspect is a small part of what we offer. Naturally, it is absolutely necessary and useful, but as I've already explained, the most important thing is working with specialized people. So we propose our services, and these services are performed by our technicians who are on our payroll; it's important indeed that we can see the service through to completion. That means: today we have electricians, we have plumbers, we have finishers—so that means walls, floors, ceilings. We have roofers, and a small portion can indeed do a bit of everything as a handyman. 85% of the interventions we do are done by specialists, but we don't just do small interventions. So I have technicians who do three or four interventions a day. Alongside that, we also do—I won't call them construction sites—but more significant works. More significant works could be: renovating rooms or bathrooms in a nursing home, it could be repainting an entire hall of a building, it's redoing major plumbing over a week with two or three men. So we also do that type of work.

[00:06:02] Camille de Meeûs: We have the whole aesthetic side of the work, but what about the work that is mandatory?

Obligations & compliance: fire safety, electrical, plans

[00:06:06] Philippe Vanschoubroek: Well, it's true that regulations are evolving more and more as well, and in that context, we go even further and can bring electricity up to code, including single-line diagrams, etc. single-line schematics. For example also: fire protection. Within "OKDO Building Maintenance" we have an entity called "Secu-Fire" which specializes in fire protection. That means we install and inspect extinguishers, hose reels, fire doors, etc. And so that legislation is also changing more and more lately.

[00:06:40] Camille de Meeûs: What are the recurring observations you make in your line of work?

Field observations: standards, emergency lighting, prevention

[00:06:43] Philippe Vanschoubroek: Well, generally speaking, we notice that, starting with fire safety, I won't say we're rarely up to code, but it depends on the buildings. Many residential buildings today, meaning apartment buildings, are rarely 100% compliant, whether in terms of electricity, but especially regarding fire safety. What does fire safety mean? It's not enough to just have fire extinguishers; you also have to check if there are fire doors that work, emergency lighting blocks—very important because, in the end, it's not really the fire that kills people, it's simply that they can't see anything anymore because there is too much smoke. And if the emergency lights aren't working, well, people just don't know how to get out of the building; that's the first thing. Next, more so for buildings like, I'd say, industrial sites or offices, it's preventive maintenance. That is to say, prevention is better than cure; it means maintaining your roofs, maintaining the grounds, etc. It's better than waiting for water to leak from the roof because everything is clogged and because the roof was poorly maintained. That means we end up with more damage later, we're in an emergency situation, etc. Preventive maintenance is the best way, simply to keep things running. It doesn't cost more, but it prevents a huge amount of damage and is necessarily easier to manage in terms of costs and scheduling.

[00:07:55] Camille de Meeûs: It clearly limits the damage.

[00:07:56] Philippe Vanschoubroek: It clearly limits the damage, or even avoids it. That means fewer arguments with insurance companies, with residents, or with the people occupying the offices. Yes, preventive plans exist, I would say they are quite simple, you know; again, it's a question of cost, it's simply a question of organization.

Without a sales team: how OkDo grows its clients

[00:08:11] Camille de Meeûs: Someone who starts with you as a sales rep, a salesperson... do you have sales reps, salespeople within "OKDO" to sell your services?

[00:08:17] Philippe Vanschoubroek: No.

[00:08:17] Camille de Meeûs: No, there are no Sales reps. But then how do you manage to find these clients? The follow-up, the quality of your technicians, etc. (Philippe Vanschoubroek: Yeah). But before those people go out into the field, you have to find them clients, so how does that work at that level?

[00:08:27] Philippe Vanschoubroek: At that level, I was lucky to have actually started "OKDO Building Maintenance" with partners. We divided the commercial side in two, meaning there are two of the four partners who mostly did the canvassing for clientele. We naturally split it up: Jerry does more of the property management side and I do more of the retail side and also the Dutch-speaking clients since we have quite a lot of them. And then we started like that, quite simply. Yes, there was some canvassing at the start, and then afterwards, quite a few clients brought in other clients. There is also sometimes a certain turnover among facility managers, so that means one leaves a network for another and then proposes us again in this new network. And then we also, as I was saying earlier, really paid very, very close attention to quality, to client follow-up. We have very loyal clients going back several years and major clients.

[00:09:18] Camille de Meeûs: So you actually have a certain reputation now?

[00:09:20] Philippe Vanschoubroek: Yes, I think so; in any case, I realized it when I had meetings with prospects, people I had never met before. Indeed, I think we have a pretty good reputation in the facility management market.

[00:09:32] Camille de Meeûs: What are the main difficulties one might encounter on the commercial side in your sector?

Key challenge: time, and prospecting slowing things down

[00:09:36] Philippe Vanschoubroek: Difficulties, well I'd say the primary difficulty in our trade is not having enough time. Meaning that as a partner, we don't exactly have only that to do. We grew quickly in a short time, which obviously also demands a lot of work regarding technician follow-up, regarding the follow-up of internal staff. To sometimes rethink, or restructure the company because it's growing. I would say honestly the commercial part has, I won't say become secondary, but we were following up with our clients, yet for a certain time, we didn't prospect enough.

Why PHCom: context, scepticism, turning point

[00:10:09] Camille de Meeûs: Very good connection. So, now we're going to talk about the collaboration with PHCom. Tell me a little bit about the history with PHCom, since when and why this collaboration?

[00:10:18] Philippe Vanschoubroek: We got in touch with PHCom via a client who told us about PHCom around April-May, and we were actually in the middle of reorganizing a little bit and telling ourselves that we really needed to start prospecting again. So, we got in touch very quickly, and the contact went well. It's true that at the beginning you're always a bit skeptical, because you tell yourself, "Well, we know how to do it better, so why them and not us?" But there you go, we realized that, well, firstly, it is a profession in itself. Even for me, having been in sales for 30 years, you have to be honest, it's not the most fun part. It's making calls, trying to get appointments, and calling, calling again until you actually get the appointment. That honestly helped us a lot.

[00:10:59] Camille de Meeûs: Can we say that the collaboration with PHCom allowed you to be more productive, to save more time?

Results: more meetings, time saved, clients

[00:11:04] Philippe Vanschoubroek: It certainly saved us time, since we could never have had so many appointments in such a short time. We had more or less thirty appointments in three months; if someone had told me that at the start, well, I wouldn't have believed it. Yes, it saved us time in any case, and it has already won us some clients.

Anecdote: prospecting… and a “network” surprise

[00:11:20] Camille de Meeûs: Philippe, do you have an anecdote to share with us regarding the collaboration with PHCom?

[00:11:24] Philippe Vanschoubroek: It's more of a coincidence. Following the prospecting, an appointment was set for me with a prospect. Well, it's true that we receive a lot of emails, appointments, etc. so I didn't pay attention to it right away but... The day before the appointment, I said to myself, "Hey, who do I have an appointment with tomorrow? Where have I been booked for an appointment?", and essentially, it was at a friend of mine's place. But it was a company involved in property development; I didn't have the appointment with that friend, I would say fortunately, in a way. I met two people during that appointment, but I thought to myself, "Well, they aren't aware that we know each other," so I did my presentation, etc. And it was only after an hour and a half that one of the two people said to me, "Yes, but you do know our CEO, right?" And so there I said, "Yes, it's true," but they asked me the question, "Why are you only making contact now? And why didn't you go through that person?" I said, "Quite simply because I didn't think of it, for one. And then secondly, I think it's actually better not to go through someone, quote-unquote, perhaps more privileged. It might have placed more of a sense of obligation on people. So I actually prefer to meet the people in the field. And afterwards let it be confirmed that, well, we are someone trustworthy."

Positive surprises: hidden networks, reaching the right contact

[00:12:31] Camille de Meeûs: In the various appointments that PHCom's prospectors booked for you, for "OKDO", did you have any good surprises?

[00:12:38] Philippe Vanschoubroek: Yes, I had several. Among the surprises, that is to say, actually you don't realize the number of networks that exist. By network, I mean, some clients are companies that manage a lot of buildings; I'm thinking for example of a client I met, who manages over 700 buildings in Belgium, which is really huge. So what I mean by that is, it's not a retail chain, it's not a brand; it means it's a company managing 700 buildings. These buildings belong to them, but actually, it's not something one could find on one's own. I mean by that, at that point you have to go through a company, for example like PHCom, that knows this hidden world, this sub-world, I would say unknown, since it is not a known brand. You really have to know the companies managing these buildings and the people working in that company to finally get to the right appointment.

Sales skills: listening, questioning, staying honest

[00:13:24] Camille de Meeûs: In your opinion, what are the sales skills that are essential today?

[00:13:27] Philippe Vanschoubroek: I'm not going to teach you anything new. I've been in sales for 30 years myself. At the beginning, I thought you had to talk a lot, but in the end, that's not true. I learned over time that it's better to ask a few questions and listen, rather than trying to sell your product or service at all costs. So there you go, it's about letting the other person speak first before presenting your product or service. Because ultimately, it's the client who gives us the key, or gives us the answer as to whether it could be of interest to them or not. And then afterwards, you also have to be honest; you can only sell when there is a real need. So sometimes a meeting might simply end with us saying, "Let's stop here; I can't do anything for you," or "You don't have any needs that I can meet."

[00:14:08] Camille de Meeûs: Listening is paramount.

[00:14:09] Philippe Vanschoubroek: Listening is paramount, and asking the right questions is too.

[00:14:13] Camille de Meeûs: And to ask the right questions, you also have to take an interest in the person in front of you (Philippe Vanschoubroek: Yeah) and the person on the other end of the line.

[00:14:18] Philippe Vanschoubroek: Of course, of course. It's also experience that dictates it's not necessarily about asking questions just for the sake of it, but simply because we are genuinely interested in the client's problem. We know the issues generally, but then again, a network of buildings, or buildings themselves, aren't always the same thing so...

[00:14:32] Camille de Meeûs: Every case is different.

[00:14:33] Philippe Vanschoubroek: The client is looking for technical solutions, yes, but then, there are different ways to get there and to interest the client as well. That is to say, not just the technical intervention, but also the administrative part. Meaning, as I said at the beginning, the client wants good reporting; they want to know where they stand and they also want to reach good conclusions, so we have to go further than just the technical work. We also have to help them manage these buildings and be able to create added value on that level.

Goals: team responsibility + references & brands

[00:15:01] Camille de Meeûs: What is your next ambition, or personal commercial goal?

[00:15:04] Philippe Vanschoubroek: The goals are always, I would say, twofold. On one hand, we have the goals for the company. Naturally, when you start a company from scratch and today you have 30 employees and workers, you have a certain responsibility. So, that means we have to feed them, so to speak, and we have to be certain that we can keep them so we can continue working with them, and for them, so that's my first objective. The second, I would say, is perhaps more personal on a commercial level: it's to land some big brands at some point—more big brands, perhaps better-known brands—since that always serves as a reference for future clients or future meetings. We already have some; it's easy, you know, to say, "We work for so-and-so or so-and-so." Somehow, the prospect feels more at ease. Personally, I have a few targets that would make me happy.

[00:15:52] Camille de Meeûs: Is it important to have references like that, from companies you've collaborated with for years?

[00:15:56] Philippe Vanschoubroek: Yes, yes, certainly. It obviously counts for prospects because it reassures them that we are already in this market, that we are already active, that we know how it works, right? Again, it's not just a technical question; it's also a question of client follow-up, IT systems, or a platform that allows us to do exactly that. I think everyone likes to buy from a store where they aren't the only one buying, and where hundreds of people have already passed through before and are satisfied. It naturally reassures them in the purchase.

PHCom in 3 words: speed, efficiency, professionalism

[00:16:24] Camille de Meeûs: If you had to define your collaboration with PHCom in three words, what would you say?

[00:16:28] Philippe Vanschoubroek: I would say, in any case: speed, efficiency, and professionalism.

Outro

[00:16:34] Camille de Meeûs: Thank you Philippe, and all the best for the future.

[00:16:36] Philippe Vanschoubroek: Thank you very much.

• [00:01:08] Introduction to Quentin Hanquet and Travie
• [00:01:35] What differentiates Travie: a very broad activity portfolio
• [00:02:32] Core values: inclusion, adapted environment, dedicated support
• [00:03:13] Commercial complexities within the sector
• [00:03:57] Seasonality: a very busy second half of the year
• [00:04:27] How new clients are generated
• [00:05:45] Pipeline management, follow-ups and internal practices
• [00:06:34] Building trust: collaboration at every level
• [00:07:06] Essential commercial skills: active listening
• [00:07:27] 2026 ambitions: offsetting the decline in inbound demand
• [00:08:16] Economic context and uncertainty
• [00:08:36] 2024 collaboration with PHCom
• [00:09:43] Time saved thanks to PHCom
• [00:10:21] Using PHCom’s DM programme
• [00:11:41] Is Travie more expensive? Pricing clarification
• [00:13:18] How workers join Travie
• [00:14:09] Why choose PHCom: a human and effective approach
• [00:15:14] Collaboration in three words: “excellent”
• [00:15:22] Podcast closing remarks

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:13] Hello and welcome to another episode of the podcast "Performance, Harmony & Commercial", produced by PHCom in the "transforma -bxl" studio using the techniques of "The Podcast Factory Org".

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:23] The "Performance, Harmony & Sales" podcast is aimed at marketing and sales managers, as well as company executives with sales responsibilities.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:32] Every month, we share with you our best practices in finding new customers for business-to-business companies.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:38] You can find each episode on the PHCom point be website, P.H.C.O.M, and on all the good podcast platforms.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:48] You can support this podcast and promote its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, comment or share.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:55] The answering machine is always open so that you can leave us a message, which we'll be delighted to answer.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:00] You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane on phcom dot be.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:06] See you soon.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:07] Hello Quentin

Quentin Hanquet: [00:01:08] Hello Camille

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:08] We're delighted to welcome you today in this beautiful PHCom podcast. So, tell us a little bit about what you do. What are your activities?

Quentin Hanquet: [00:01:15] I'm a sales manager at Travie. Travie is an adapted work company founded in 1980 and located along the canal in Anderlecht. There are roughly 400 people working at Travie, 335 of whom are disabled. And so our mission is to offer paid, suitable work to all our workers.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:35] There are a lot of ETAs, so E.T.A., so that our listeners understand what Entreprise de Travail Adapté really means.

Quentin Hanquet: [00:01:43] So I'd say that what sets us apart from the competition is the fact that we have an extremely broad range of activities. So we're a pretty big operation. And so we're going to offer a whole range of activities, including fresh food, dry food, assembly, packaging, mailing, as well as sending workers to our customers' sites. And so I'd say that the first thing that sets us apart is precisely this very wide range of activities, so as we say back home, "We produce fresh lettuce on electric bikes". That's how wide our range of activities is. What also sets us apart is the fact that we're a large structure, with a high production capacity, and that we can offer our customers flexibility in terms of production to attenuate their seasonal peaks. That's what sets us apart.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:32] What are the company's values?

Quentin Hanquet: [00:02:34] Company values? Our ben mission is inclusion, offering paid work in a setting adapted to the specific needs of the people who work with us. That's really what we want to offer, we want to offer a working environment in which people can blossom, which is nevertheless a job, so it's paid work, it's not occupational, people really come to us to work. But what really sets us apart from an average company is the fact that we have a supervisor who makes sure that each person is in the right place at each production workstation, and that the workstation is adapted to the person's disability.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:13] Now let's talk about the commercial stakes. What's working well and what's not in your sector?

Quentin Hanquet: [00:03:20] So it's a bit difficult to say what's working well and what's not in our sector, since we do so many things. I'd rather rephrase that as "What are the complexities of our industry?". What's complex in our sector is that we offer a service, so we're subject to the requests we receive from our customers, and to the seasonal variation in these requests. So, typically, as we're here to absorb our customers' seasonal peaks, there will be times of the year when we'll have a lot more work than other times of the year. Typically, the second half of the year is a very busy period, because there are a lot of requests from companies.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:57] We're right in the middle of it now.

Quentin Hanquet: [00:03:57] That's it, we're right in the middle of it. For the end of the year, for Easter and, in short, for all the commercial news ahead. This keeps us very busy in the second half of the year, but the first half is traditionally a quieter period. The challenge for us is really to be able to complete our business during this slightly quieter period, and to find additional activities to ensure that our business is as smooth and stable as possible throughout the year, so that we can fulfill our social mission.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:27] How do you generate new customers, new leads if I can call them that?

Quentin Hanquet: [00:04:31] There are different ways of generating a new type of activity. First of all, the contact we have with our customers. At the moment, we're trying to work in good coordination with our customers to anticipate certain productions, to try and smooth them out a little more. We also have a series of activities for which we have a little more control over the schedule in terms of production. These are activities that we've been looking for, for which we can manage production, so that's a good complement. And of course, and I think this is why I'm here today, there's a real need for us to be proactive on the sales front to continue developing our business. We have to be constantly on our toes to keep developing our business, we can't afford to rest on our laurels. Even if we have a portfolio of regular customers who are loyal and well-established, that's not enough to guarantee us stable business throughout the year, so we need to be proactive in our approach to finding new customers, and also in different areas of activity, where there's less seasonality. That's why we called on PHCom to initiate this process in a structured way.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:45] So it's understandable that PHCom has really come, or at least arrived, to help you with your business development. But apart from that, do you have any specific tools or practices for managing your pipeline, your follow-ups, your appointments, beyond PHCom? Is there another structure made in-house?

Quentin Hanquet: [00:05:59] Before working with PHCom, I used to say that we did things a little with our own resources and common sense. It was a matter of relaunching customers and former customers, etc. But I would say that the axis that has always been favored, and which I think is also, and remains despite everything, an essential axis, is first and foremost to continue to listen to our customers at the present time. The major challenge right now is to keep our customers, support our customers, listen to their needs, and eventually add other types of activities that we don't do with these customers to enrich our activities.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:34] How do you create a long-term relationship of trust with your customers?

Quentin Hanquet: [00:06:38] The relationship of trust comes from working together at every level of the company. So it's not just at commercial level that the relationship with the customer is established, it's also at production and team level. And it's when all levels of the company work really well together that people talk to each other, share their problems, and from that moment on, well, the trust is there, it's really something that's built, clearly!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:06] What business skills do you consider essential today? We can't do without it.

Quentin Hanquet: [00:07:10] The business skills that are essential are listening. Clearly, it's all about listening, getting an idea of our customers' needs, and seeing how we can support them, how we can adapt our structure to meet those needs. I think that's the core competency.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:27] Is there an ambition or business goal that Travie would like to achieve? Here we are at the end of 2025, in 2026, how do you see things?

Quentin Hanquet: [00:07:36] It's a complicated year at the moment because, given the current economic climate, we're facing an erosion, not in terms of the number of our customers, because our customers are there and are still there, but we're facing an erosion in terms of the contribution made by our customers in terms of work in our companies. The big challenge for us next year is going to be to find additional activities to complement this erosion that's taking place, and when we see the current economic context, we tell ourselves that we can't just sit back and wait for things to happen, so we really have to be proactive about this and take the lead.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:16] It's scary, even in your sector?

Quentin Hanquet: [00:08:19] Well, let's just say that the current context, and I'm not even talking about the political context, eh? In which, at the level of the Brussels Region, there is still a great deal of uncertainty for all associations. I'm not even talking about that aspect, but clearly at the economic level, there's a lot of uncertainty, and we feel it in our business, we feel it in our day-to-day activity.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:36] Now let's talk about working with PHCom. We worked together in 2024, I think (Quentin Hanquet: Absolutely), we did a first mission. How do you think it went, and why are you calling on us now? It's late 2025, what happened in between?

Quentin Hanquet: [00:08:50] We initiated a first collaboration in 2024. Because in 2024, we were faced with exactly the same problems as we are now. We also wanted to round out our customer portfolio a little. The collaboration went really well, we worked really well together, so I'm not going to say in terms of the sales strategy because that was defined by us, but in terms of the implementation of this sales strategy in the scripts, in the canvassing, in the way you were going to canvass the various prospects. We're really in the B2B business, not the end-customer business. It had gone well, we had worked together for a few months and it had resulted in additional activity on our part, which is far from nil and far from negligible, hence the desire this year to re-initiate a new collaboration to really give a boost to this approach because it's necessary, that's all.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:43] Has working with PHCom saved you time or made you more productive?

Quentin Hanquet: [00:09:47] Working with PHCom enables us to focus on the part of prospecting on which we have, I'd say, more added value because we work in the company. The fact that we can delegate qualified telephone calls to PHCom to qualify prospects enables us to concentrate on these prospects once they've been qualified and try to see how we can respond to their problems. It allows us to concentrate on what's important at the end of the day.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:19] Which is the most important thing.

Quentin Hanquet: [00:10:20] That's right.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:21] It seems to me that you're still working with our DM, our program, you started using it in 2024, we stopped the prospecting mission and you've continued to use it until now? How are things going for you? It's easy, it's intuitive?

Quentin Hanquet: [00:10:34] The program is actually relatively intuitive to use, and really helps us to keep track of the various communications we've had with prospects or customers. So in this respect, it's a database that we're building up as we go along, and one that will be much needed, and is already needed now, but will be even more necessary in the future. Because customer communication management is something that can't be neglected, and needs to be done in a structured way, and that's where the PHCom database really comes into its own, so that we can do it in a way that's different from the usual piecemeal approach. We continued to work on our own, with a small sales team, doing proactive canvassing in much the same way as PHCom. So, we've reaped some rewards, but in the end, we realize that it's something that consumes an enormous amount of time and energy, and that trying to do it on top of the work we're doing at the moment, our work in sales, is complicated. At the end of the day, it doesn't allow us to do it intensively enough to be able to get quick results in fact.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:41] When we talk about ETAs (Entreprise de Travail Adapté), is it expensive to work with you, if we can put it that way? When it comes to prices, because it can be a false belief when a company calls on you, how do things work?

Quentin Hanquet: [00:11:52] In general, a company calls on us because we have production capacity. People don't call on us because some do, but people don't call on us because we're an ETA. People call on us first of all because there's a need in terms of production, and we're there to meet that need. So do we have a competitive price advantage or not? I'd say that's for customers to judge. Now, the subsidy we receive from the regional authorities is there to compensate for the fact that a person with a disability is less productive than the average person. And so this subsidy is there to compensate for this lower productivity, in quotation marks, so this subsidy is not there to give us a competitive advantage. There are companies in Belgium that do packaging work similar to ours, with whom we'll be competing directly, and there's no guarantee that we'll have a competitive price advantage over them. But it's clear that we need to be well-positioned in terms of price, because if we're poorly positioned in terms of price, people won't come to work for us if there's a price differential compared to the competition, they won't come to work for us because we're an ETA, in the majority of cases I mean.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:13:18] The question may seem a bit silly, but how do the workers manage to work for you? How does it work? Do they come with a CV or are there intermediary agencies that place people with disabilities? How does this work?

Quentin Hanquet: [00:13:30] In this respect, we operate like any other company, with an HR department, with workers coming in and applying to work in our company, with positions opening up from time to time, and positions closing up from time to time, so there's not much difference. The only thing is, of course, that our workers' disabilities have to be recognized before they can come and work for us, and that's part of our social mission, so we can't, for economic reasons, hire workers who won't be subsidized. So we'd be going beyond our scope and our mission, so there you have it, so as long as the disability is recognized, people can come and apply to us without any problem.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:14:09] Let's get back to the PHCom collaboration. Why did you choose PHCom instead of another partner?

Quentin Hanquet: [00:14:16] So, first and foremost, I called on PHCom because I'd met Nadia, who works for you, at an event organized by Travie. And so, at that point, we discussed things a little together, and the prospecting approach proposed by PHCom seemed to me to be an original and human approach above all. And that's what immediately appealed to me and made me want to go a little further. Telephone canvassing may seem a little old-fashioned, but these days, I think, when you see what's coming into mailboxes, you quickly realize that, in fact, mail is useless - people don't look at it. And so you really need to be able to find a channel to reach the right person, with the right message, and generate interest. And that's what I think PHCom does so well. So that's why we work together, and why we work again together.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:15:14] So, if you had to define your collaboration with PHCom in three words, what would you say?

Quentin Hanquet: [00:15:18] It's excellent, that's three words.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:15:22] Many thanks Quentin, and all the best for the future.

Quentin Hanquet: [00:15:24] Thank you, Camille.

• [00:01:07] Introduction of Antoine Denis
• [00:01:20] Audéo: background and activity
• [00:01:43] Differentiation: flexibility and reactivity
• [00:02:23] Updated equipment and technological evolution
• [00:02:48] Advice for getting started in the event industry
• [00:03:32] Family origins and passion
• [00:04:19] The seasonality of the sector
• [00:05:34] How to meet new clients
• [00:06:27] The key role of networking
• [00:07:25] Main commercial obstacles
• [00:08:10] Working in complementarity: challenges and limits
• [00:08:57] Building long-term trust
• [00:09:46] Internal tools: project managers and follow-up
• [00:10:48] Examples of assignments and client management
• [00:11:45] Essential commercial skills
• [00:12:35] Objectives for 2026: storage, growth, recruitment
• [00:13:23] Role of a new project manager
• [00:13:56] Why Audéo chose PHCom
• [00:14:58] Stéphane’s commercial coaching
• [00:16:05] Importance of meetings, projection, and fieldwork
• [00:17:20] Three words to describe PHCom
• [00:17:44] Podcast closing

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:13] Hello and welcome to another episode of the "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" podcast, produced by PHCom in the "transforma bxl" studio with technical support from "The Podcast Factory Org".

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:23] The "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" Podcast is aimed at marketing and sales managers, as well as company executives with commercial responsibilities.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:32] Every month, we share with you our best practices in finding new customers for business-to-business companies.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:38] You can find each episode on the PHCom point be website, P.H.C.O.M, and on all the good podcast platforms.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:48] You can support this podcast and promote its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, comment or share.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:55] The answering machine is always open so that you can leave us a message, which we'll be delighted to answer.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:00] You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane on phcom dot be.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:06] See you soon.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:07] Hello Antoine

Antoine Denis: [00:01:08] Hello Camille

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:09] Nice to have you on our podcast for phcom and, of course, to talk about business development. How are you?

Antoine Denis: [00:01:15] Very good, very good. Busy week but all's well. Friday ends on a high note, indeed.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:20] So Antoine, you founded Audéo with your brother. What does it mean in concrete terms?

Antoine Denis: [00:01:24] So Audéo is a fifteen-year-old company, founded by a family, which deals with all technical and audiovisual aspects of events, mainly sound, lighting and all the technical equipment needed for all types of public events, festivals, concerts and others.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:43] There's a lot of competition in this field. What sets you apart from the competition?

Antoine Denis: [00:01:48] So it's true that there are a lot of us in Belgium, and a lot of us in Brussels too, because there are a lot of events going on, so it's quite normal. What sets us apart is that we really try to take advantage of our average company size, I'd like to say, and offer customers speed, flexibility and rigor in project preparation. It's also worth pointing out that all the "last minute" aspects are very important, as we get a lot of last-minute requests for modifications. And that's what sets us apart from other, perhaps larger structures, which find it harder to turn around in the event of last-minute changes.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:23] So you're clearly flexible and quick to adapt.

Antoine Denis: [00:02:27] Yes, in the schedules, in the equipment and in the field too, of course. We also try to keep all our equipment up to date, in the sense that technologies evolve very quickly, especially in lighting for example, and we know that we have to offer something that's always adapted and updated for ever more immersive and attractive experiences for customers and participants at all our events.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:48] What advice would you give to people who want to get into the same business as you?

Antoine Denis: [00:02:52] So there are several things: rigor, which we've already talked about, and stress management. We have quite a few trainees who come to us, who know how things are going to work, but after three or six months, we notice that despite the good work, they still leave tired. Events are great fun, it's a passion for us, we created it out of passion, and there's that aspect of keeping going. In the sense that there are a lot of events, the seasons are busy, you have to keep your head above water but it's something we enjoy, there's nothing similar about every event. I'd like to say that to get started, you need to be one: passionate. And two: to be, indeed, rigorous, keeping in mind all the technical aspects of the events.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:32] Where does this passion for the technical and audiovisual world come from?

Antoine Denis: [00:03:35] We're going back to family history, our dear father passed on this passion to us, so you could say that we fell into it, into the magic potion, from the time we were very small. When my brother and I were ten, we were already behind the mixing desk, setting up microphones. A passion, a teenage hobby that has now become our profession, with a company, several employees, etc. Today, we coordinate more projects, but we still like to go out into the field too, which is important. I must also emphasize the human aspect, which is important in the events business. We create events, if we take a step back, to get messages across, so there you have it, equipment is unloaded from the truck, we set it up, but we try to keep a certain human touch to the events. So getting out into the field is important for us too.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:19] Your sector, it has to be said, operates on a seasonal basis, if you can put it that way. It can't be easy every day, and it must also be very challenging.

Antoine Denis: [00:04:27] We're pretty much on a rollercoaster, so we have super-busy months when there are lots of outdoor events, like June and September. On the other hand, winter is much quieter: December, January, February. It's indeed a challenge in the sense that perhaps 75% of activities are concentrated over four or five months, both in the logistical aspects of managing the warehouse and equipment, and in the HR aspects for all the technicians. It's a real headache to fit all this into all the schedules. And we mustn't forget that in these busy periods, in addition to field management, we also inevitably have all the requests that arrive, the visits that have to be accommodated, the modifications. These are very, very, very, very, challenging and demanding months, but you have to rise to the challenge every time. We prepare over the winter months to get ready for the new season, knowing that it's going to be very busy every time. And I'd like to say that it's all a question of anticipation, both in terms of - I'm repeating myself here - the logistical aspects, of having equipment that's fully maintained and ready for the season, and in terms of staffing, so as to be prepared to accept, respond to and honor all requests, and to have new customers as well - we're here to talk about that too.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:34] And speaking of customers, how do you go about meeting new people in your rather niche sector and turning them into your customers?

Antoine Denis: [00:05:41] So with experience, I have to say that what works best is meetings in the field. Once we're going to meet someone, either at a meeting for site scouting, or even better, at an event. Once prospects and customers come to see our equipment, the teams and the way it's deployed, it's much more meaningful than a website, an Instagram page, or a call or email of course. So, the canvassing aspects are very important, but they have to lead to a human encounter, a real meeting to discuss the future project in concrete terms, and how we're going to set it up. And there's also the dimension of projecting into the future event, where the customer will be directly involved, much more than simply replying by e-mail and sending a specification. The human dimension is again very, very, important.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:27] We're talking about the human dimension, so we're talking about the network, it's the network, it's also word of mouth.

Antoine Denis: [00:06:32] It's word of mouth, the network, we could have added that in the first part for the characteristics you need to have to get into the events business. You have to build and maintain your network all the time. There are indeed meetings to take advantage of, contacts to reactivate, and don't hesitate to bring people in and get them to meet each other. In fact, every year we organize a little end-of-year drink with all our in-house and freelance technicians. It may seem trivial, but these get-togethers are a great opportunity to exchange ideas and raise Audéo's profile. So the address book, the network, is super important. Of course, you have to work at it all the time, and of course, when you've already got a network, it's like a little springboard and all the operations are easier, so to speak. Aspects of contacts, once you know someone and receive an e-mail from that person you've already seen, are always much quicker, so projects progress faster and offers are signed more quickly.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:25] What are the main difficulties and obstacles you encounter in sales?

Antoine Denis: [00:07:30] Quite a few venues, or agencies, or customers, are already committed to service providers, and this is perfectly normal, as it's something that will facilitate relations between a customer, a venue and its technical service provider. But we often come across venues which already have their own equipment, which impose a service provider or which are reluctant to accept another service provider. The main obstacle is that the sector is rather closed, I'd say. Everyone has his or her own contacts, and it's only natural that we should go back to our address books and networks. You have to find a way through and find a small gap where you can offer your services, try to innovate, convince the customer that it might be time, or perhaps an opportunity, to try out a new company for once.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:10] Yes, but sometimes you can complement existing infrastructures, things that are already being done?

Antoine Denis: [00:08:15] These are things that are done, but they're not necessarily easy. It's sometimes a double whammy for the customer who rents the room, who has to rent an installation with perhaps a technician on duty, who may be twiddling his thumbs, and the Audéo teams who install equipment in parallel. There can be synergies, but it's not necessarily easy either. When we have to provide a service in a place we don't know at all, to be sure of ensuring a quality service, we sometimes prefer to come with all our equipment and be 100% autonomous, and unfortunately not use the equipment on site if we don't know it, so there you have it, these are contexts that aren't always easy. For the customer, it's also sometimes complicated from a budgetary point of view, so we think it's normal for them to turn to the venue's service provider, who already has their equipment installed on a permanent basis.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:57] How do you build a long-term relationship of trust with your existing customers?

Antoine Denis: [00:09:02] When a request is made, an event takes place, and several weeks or months later, a second request arrives, we consider that the relationship of trust has already been established. It's only after a successful first event that the customer can be totally reassured and call on us again, hopefully for a long time to come. I think we try to establish a fairly close and human relationship directly. When it comes to submitting bids, I always give priority to telephone calls rather than e-mails, to try to understand the needs and constraints of each customer, and to try to get as close as possible to each customer, step by step of course. But I think that trust is also established through a close relationship, and I think it's important to underline that too.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:46] It still requires a lot of follow-up. Do you have any specific in-house tools or practices to support your customers and show them that you're still there?

Antoine Denis: [00:09:54] There are several of us at Audéo, and each project manager has his or her own customers. Take Bozar, for example, which is a venue we work with a lot. All the requests from Bozar's various customers come to me, for example, for ease of use. When we receive a new request from a new customer, we decide internally who will take charge of the project and the customer in question, and we try to keep a single point of contact between this customer and our teams to facilitate exchanges and communication. I think you have to be quick and reactive. I've mentioned this before, but so last-minute requests and modifications are normal, and quite usual in the events business. The customer needs to feel that the technical service provider is behind the project, is being monitored, and that he can rely on the service provider for all logistical aspects.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:48] When you're a technical service provider at events, you've got a lot on your shoulders.

Antoine Denis: [00:10:51] It all depends on the type of event and, above all, the type of customer. Once you're working with customers, let's call them professionals, and it's a long-term collaboration, the missions are very clear and everyone has their own tasks and agenda, and we know how to move forward. For private customers, it can sometimes be more complicated, as it's less clear to them what Audéo can and can't do. We sometimes have to refuse certain services that the customer thought we could provide, but which in fact aren't part of our range at all. I'm thinking, for example, of decoration aspects for a wedding. Sometimes we have to reframe customers a little, but generally speaking, things go pretty well. And I think it's pretty clear on all our communication channels, the services we offer, the staff we offer, are really purely technical aspects, very few ancillary services, no photographers, no decoration, etc..

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:45] To keep in touch with your customers, what skills do you think are essential for sales?

Antoine Denis: [00:11:53] I'd say don't just sit back behind your PC and wait for the requests to come in, keep up to date. I think there's a lot going on in Brussels in terms of culture and events. And keep up to date, informed, simply by following social networks, agendas and activating your networks. And in fact, go out and find prospects, look for events or offer services. Once you've acquired the network, you need to activate it to find out what events you'll be organizing over the next three months, and do you need a technical visit? Can I help you? This will really build customer loyalty, and they'll feel that we're there to support and assist them in all logistical aspects.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:35] At Audéo, what's your next goal, your next business ambition? We're at the end of 2025, how do you see 2026?

Antoine Denis: [00:12:43] How do we see 2026? We're starting to feel very cramped, both logistically and in terms of storage space, and this becomes quite restrictive in peak seasons, such as September. So we're really looking for a new storage location, so that's for the purely logistical aspects. And in terms of staff and events, we're currently at around 300 projects a year, and we'd like to pass the 400 mark next year. Growth is still good, the number of events is increasing, so that's great. We've reorganized everyone's tasks within the company a little, and we'll probably have to hire another project manager in 2026 just to ensure that we can meet all the new demands in a timely fashion.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:13:23] That's why this new Project Manager will be really for the commercial aspect, to always have a follow-up in real time and show that you're there, and that you don't abandon your customers.

Antoine Denis: [00:13:30] So, given the growing demand for events and, let's say, general management time, to manage all the logistical aspects, personnel, vehicles, equipment, meetings, modifications, all this takes up a lot of time and we'd like to have an additional project manager to support our customers even more reactively, even more efficiently. And to show customers that responses within a quarter of an hour are commonplace in our company, to ensure a really, really, fast follow-up.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:13:56] To ensure that your business development works, you called on phcom. Why did you choose this partner?

Antoine Denis: [00:14:01] So we were already in contact with phcom, I think, before Covid. Then Covid came along, and we stayed in the freezer for about two years. We were in contact with phcom to give a little boost, so to speak, to our business development. My brother, who's my partner, and I didn't have much time to find new prospects. Because between all the events and the administration, it's complicated to put the priority on that, as we realized after a few years. Phcom really helped us to free up time that was really allocated solely to canvassing, making calls, mailing, getting Audéo recognized, activating outreach, already showing all the references. It's a very time-consuming job, so you have to allocate very specific time to it. Once again, we're going to talk about networks, but when you call someone who may refer you to someone else, it's important to activate all these contacts and networks.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:14:58] You're currently accompanied by Stéphane, phcom's CEO. I think he accompanied you on an appointment to listen to you and help you with the sale. How does it work?

Antoine Denis: [00:15:08] So Stéphane took part in a call with me a few days ago, in a rather passive way, to listen, that's normal. We debriefed right after the appointment for a good 20 minutes, which was the first time he'd listened to my sales pitch and methods. Two or three comments have already been made, and some advice given directly. After the call, I had a call, I think 1 hour later, and advice that was applied directly afterwards. And the main piece of advice, if I can give it here, I guess yes, was simply to ask the customer more precisely what their needs were for a concrete event, whether that's in two weeks, in two months, but so that they can actually launch, project themselves, already imagine themselves in an event with Audéo. Apart from that, Stéphane felt that the presentation of the company and the way we interacted with each other were perfectly fine. But perhaps we needed to personalize things more for the customer, to understand their needs and imagine a concrete relationship.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:16:05] Is this sales support important to you?

Antoine Denis: [00:16:08] Yes, I think phone calls and e-mails are classic. But a videoconference or an on-site meeting is when you have to pull out all the stops, and you know that time is precious for everyone. When you've got someone at the end of the line, or in front of you, that's the moment to take advantage of, to try and make things happen, to build loyalty already, to...

Camille de Meeûs: [00:16:28] We have to seize the opportunity.

Antoine Denis: [00:16:29] Seize the opportunity, the moment, and hope that within the hour or the next day, you'll already have a request arriving in your inbox and you'll be thinking "Ok, we talked about this yesterday during our video, here's the project outline. Can we meet there?". It's a straightforward way of getting down to business. And Stéphane guided us in this way, saying "Ok, so we're talking about events, we're talking about the human dimension, we're talking about events, we need to get together", we need to go there, we need to project ourselves into the event.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:16:55] The importance of terrain.

Antoine Denis: [00:16:56] It's important to be hands-on and concrete, to be able to say, here's what you can imagine in your specifications, and here's what I can offer you, and here are the little extras we can propose. What is Audéo going to do to stand out, to stand out a little from the crowd? Given our experience, the events we've already done in venues, and our technicians who are used to this kind of event, we need to pull out all the stops to convince the customer directly and launch a relationship with them.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:17:20] Finally, Antoine, how would you describe your collaboration with phcom in three words?

Antoine Denis: [00:17:25] So, in three words, just off the top of my head, I'd say: efficiency, rigor and transparency. Transparency, especially via our online platform, which enables us to track appointments and calls by the day, or practically by the minute. And it's important to know how things are progressing and how we can work together.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:17:44] Merci Antoine.

Antoine Denis: [00:17:45] With great pleasure.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:17:46] See you soon.

Antoine Denis: [00:17:46] Goodbye.