• [00:01:07] Handling objections
• [00:01:40] You don’t break down an objection with a bulldozer
• [00:02:02] A “No” that targets the proposal
• [00:02:27] Instinctive reactions
• [00:02:54] Distinguishing types of objections
• [00:03:24] Using the right words and being clear
• [00:03:38] Creating a space for discussion
• [00:03:51] Practical advice
• [00:03:59] Barriers: rather a good sign
• [00:04:24] “I want to believe”
• [00:04:32] “Who sows the wind reaps the storm”
• [00:04:44] Understanding why and when “No” arises
• [00:05:11] Real objections
• [00:05:16] “Life insurances”
• [00:05:58] Real objections based on misunderstanding
• [00:06:11] The false objection
• [00:06:45] Pitfalls to avoid
• [00:07:01] Good reflexes to adopt
• [00:07:18] The technique for handling objections in five steps
• [00:08:24] The “Field, Felt, Found” strategy
• [00:08:46] Practical example
• [00:09:32] Should you really look for objections?
• [00:09:55] The staircase metaphor
• [00:10:36] In practice
• [00:12:51] Objectives in number of “No’s” to obtain
• [00:13:22] The right posture
• [00:13:55] Podcast conclusion and call to action

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:13] Hello and welcome to another episode of the podcast "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" , produced by PHCom in the "transforma bxl" studio using the techniques of "The Podcast Factory Org".

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:23] The "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" Podcast is aimed at marketing and sales managers, as well as company executives with commercial responsibilities.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:32] Every month, we share with you our best practices in finding new customers for business-to-business companies.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:38] You can find each episode on the PHCom point be P.H.C.O.M website, and also on all good podcast platforms.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:48] You can support this podcast and promote its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, comment or share.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:55] The answering machine is always open so that you can leave us a message, which we'll be delighted to answer.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:00] You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane on phcom dot be.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:06] See you soon!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:07] Hello everyone. Today, we're talking about a word that salespeople know well, a simple word, but one that stings: "no".

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:15] Yes, the famous "no", the one that makes you sweat, or pierces your heart like an arrow. The one that makes you say "Fuck it..." or any other swear word inwardly or, very loudly after a botched date.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:28] In fact, to hear him speak, some people turn into bulldozers and counter-argue with "Yes, but you're wrong...". Direct attack style. In short, we're talking about objection management.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:40] Exactly. And you'll see, an objection isn't a wall to be bulldozed, it's rather a half-open door, a field of possibility: a sign of interest, in any case, a springboard for progress. If the prospect objects, it's because he's interested, even a little, in what we're saying, or at least in what's in his head.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:02] When you're just starting out in prospecting, receiving a "no" is pretty violent, and you tend to take it personally. He rejects me, my value, my product, my company.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:02:12] In fact, let's consider that the "No" is not aimed at the person, it's aimed at the proposal. What happens is that the customer says "No" to what you're proposing now, in this way, but not "No" to you. In any case, if it's aimed at the person, you hand it over.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:27] Generally speaking, when faced with objections, we find the primitive in ourselves. Faced with the danger of "fight flight or freeze", some people bury their heads in the sand, pretending not to have heard the objection, change the subject, or worse, run away saying "Well, sorry to have bothered you". And now it's an abandonment of post.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:02:46] Yes, or else he's attacking in exactly the same way as you said, "But sir, you haven't understood". And then we go from salesman to polemicist, a bad idea.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:54] It may be useful to distinguish between objections received at the start of an interview, during an interview or at the end of an interview. At the start of an interview, at least in a telephone prospecting approach, there's a situation that everyone is familiar with.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:07] It's the "I get it" syndrome. The prospect thinks he's understood in ten seconds what took him years to conceive. How long did it take you to learn your pitch? How long did it take you to build this pitch? And then, in the blink of an eye, he understood everything and said "No thanks".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:24] You know what I think? "No thanks, I've got it," probably comes from throwing out a pitch that's too self-centered, too fast-paced and not focused enough on the other person. But it can also happen that we don't use the right words and aren't clear.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:38] Oui. Remember that the aim at the beginning of the interview is not to sell, but to create a space for discussion. And if you take an interest in the other person, with the right approach, and he perceives that, he'll give you that tone.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:51] A practical tip: record yourself, listen to yourself, and ask yourself, "If I were in his shoes, would I have wanted to listen to this?"

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:59] Then there are the brakes that can be applied in the middle of an interview. At that point, when the customer objects, I'd say that's a pretty good sign. He seeks to understand, to test your coherence, to see if he can trust you.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:12] Exactly. And this is where we can talk about the objection, which is a proof of interest. He wants to know more: the opposite of love is not hatred, but indifference. If he doesn't say anything, worry.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:24] So when someone says "I think it's expensive, I'm not sure of the result". In effect, he's saying, "I want to believe it, but please help me feel reassured.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:32] This brings us to the heart of the objections. During negotiations that lead to defeat, when we've proposed what we think is the best solution for the other party. Now I'm going to tell you something that's going to hurt you: "He who sows the wind reaps the whirlwind".

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:44] In fact, we deserve the objections we receive. At the end of the interview, when you propose something, when you try to conclude, when you receive a "No", you have to understand what that "No" is! Why did it get there? And how can I avoid it next time? But don't let that stop us from sharing a tried-and-tested technique with you, and we'll start with the three types of objections that exist: the real ones, the ones that are real but based on a misunderstanding, and the false ones.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:11] The real ones are quite clear. He doesn't have any money, and you're trying to get him to spend it.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:05:16] In fact, it would have been better if you'd defused the situation directly, right from the start of the interview. If he doesn't have any money, he should be able to tell you straight away, and you shouldn't offer him anything - the discussion is pointless, you're wasting your time. If, at the start of the interview, you were sufficiently attractive, turned towards the other person, ready to respond to their needs, and they felt it, without knowing exactly what you were going to offer them, they were curious and wanted to know. Now, if you ask him if he has a budget, you'll get the real answer, not a fake beard. If that's true, then we're screwed. That's life insurance, anticipating misfortune.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:58] As for real objections based on a misunderstanding, I imagine it's more along the lines of "It takes twelve months to do that, so I'm not interested at all". "But no, it only takes 1 to 2 months", "Really? Okay", easy to defuse.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:11] Exact. And finally, the false beard, the false objection, is the one that masks something else. In fact, they're easy to spot: if you destroy one properly, there's another one right after it, and so on... Until we get to the real objection. Classically, these false objections are linked to a lack of confidence, unexpressed doubts, fear of change or a lack of information.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:35] And that's what this objection is all about. To our competence, our clarity, our credibility or just a need to be heard?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:45] Before giving you the technique, a quick reminder of the pitfalls to avoid.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:49] Panic. Aïe! He objects.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:52] Conflict. "But no, you're wrong".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:54] The controversy? "Yes but, yes but".

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:58] Resignation. "You're right, excuse me".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:01] And the right reflexes to adopt!

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:03] Respond with assertiveness, neither passive nor aggressive.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:06] Use "Yes and" rather than "Yes, but".

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:10] And ask open-ended questions. "To what extent do you...", "How do you perceive this...".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:16] How do you get organized?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:18] That's exactly where we're going. Let's get down to business and tell you how to deal with all objections. Just five steps.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:25] Please, Mr. Performance, the floor is yours!

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:28] No, no, no, no! Let's play, let's test with an example. I'm your potential customer, and after you've presented your offer, I say "Ok, thanks but I don't think it's the right time". How do you react?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:40] Mmmmmmmhhhhhhhh. One, I welcome positively, thinking "Yes and" instead of "Yes but". Two, I question and rephrase: to really get to the heart of the matter and save time for reflection.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:53] Right, those are the first two steps. And then come the next three: destroy the objection, if it's real, by maximizing all your assets and minimizing all your disadvantages. Fourth step: ask for agreement, "Does this really answer your question?". Fifth step: suggest what's next, "So we'll see you Tuesday or Thursday?"

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:15] So even if you have a ready-made answer, let him talk. Often, the prospect needs to clear his head of all these objections before he can really listen to you.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:24] A little technique to integrate when it comes to destroying the objection. Do you know the "field, felt, found" strategy?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:32] Oh yes! In French, it means "to feel, experience and see". One, recognize the emotion. Two, to show that others have had the same concern as you. Three, present the solution found by these people.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:46] Case in point. So, the prospect says "It's too expensive for me right now"?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:51] First, feel, accept, as we were saying earlier. "I fully understand your concern about the price. It's a legitimate question to ask". Then, from personal experience, "You should know that many of our customers felt the same hesitation at first, and they were just as concerned about the budget as you were. And finally, share a credible experience "And in the end, they discovered that thanks to our solution or product, they were able to make long-term savings and increase their productivity, which more than justified the initial investment". In short, tell them "I understand you, others have felt the same way, and they've found that..."

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:09:29] A marvel of empathy and storytelling.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:32] One question: do we really need to go looking for objections?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:09:36] Sometimes we have to provoke them, rather than suffer them. Say, for example, "Some of our customers have told us they fear that...". Then you defuse the situation before it explodes. It's always life insurance.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:50] But don't hold out your hand to be beaten, do it with control and confidence.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:09:55] I'd like to share with you an image I often use: the staircase. Each step is a small point gained. And at the top of the stairs, there's a corridor, and all along the corridor, there are lots of exit doors, the objections. On the other hand, at the end, there's a beautiful door, here's your sale, and this door is super-beautiful. It sparkles, it's golden. And in fact, what you have to do is get your customer to the top of the stairs, at the entrance to this corridor, to look only at that door. So, of course, the other doors are always there, he can look at them, it's sometimes worth opening them, or at least half-opening them. But above all, he has to be able to say to himself, "Rah, that door at the back, how beautiful it is! That's where I'm going."

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:36] Let's get down to business. A few classic objections to put it all into practice, and how to answer them. Example: "Please send me some documentation".

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:10:46] "Of course, but documentation won't answer all your questions. What would you like to find there?"

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:51] In that case, you accept and follow up with a question. Remember steps one and two, which we've just seen.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:10:58] And then we move on to stages three, four and five. So if we listen, we'll certainly find, in what he tells you, a good reason not to send him the documentation, but rather to propose a meeting. We'll see if he agrees, and then we'll suggest the appointment.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:14] Come on, one more: "I'm already working with a supplier, I don't need you".

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:11:18] Perfect! Why did you choose it? What could be improved? And once again, we listen, destroy, validate and propose. If he says, "Okay, when I chose this solution, it was perfect, this supplier was great on the market, but... It's true that over time, new solutions have appeared". "Yes, yes, and what are you thinking?". "There could be better site supervision! "Well, listen, if our company was created, it's because many of our customers are experiencing the same problem: having better site follow-up. So, from there, they discovered these other solutions, ours. They thought Ah yes, not bad at all. They set it up. Have you seen our solution before? See you next week". Now that's "thread, felt, found". Good luck to you, "It's too expensive".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:05] I understand. What's important is really the value that's perceived "What exactly do you actually want from this service?"

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:12:10] "That you bring me a 10% higher ROI than the current situation".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:14] "Okay, fine. But in this case, the ideal is the ABC formula, since all our customers who have been on this formula have all exceeded this 10% ROI. Well then, would you be interested in discovering this solution? How about a little video?"

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:12:28] Perfect, one, two, three, four, five. Well, one last one for the road: "I haven't got time".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:32] "I understand, time is really precious, but what is it? No time to work on this type of project or no time to talk about it today?"

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:12:39] Beautiful! If you've already acquired this reflex of greeting objections with an "Ok", and with a question to probe further, you've already gained a lot in terms of knowing how to move forward with your prospect.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:51] All in all, receiving a "No" is also proof that you've put something forward. I even read an article about how some sales managers set targets for the number of "No's" they have to get in a week. Because the more "No's" you get, the more opportunities you create.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:13:06] Nice idea. In fact, if you don't get any "No's", it's because you don't propose often enough. And if you get any "No's", that's a good sign that you're making progress.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:13:15] In the end, an objection is an incomplete conversation. This is not the end of a dialogue, but an invitation to continue it.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:13:22] And the right posture is calm, curiosity, empathy and structure. So: one, you accept, everything goes well. Two, you're trying to understand. Three, you propose an alternative or answer the objection. Four, you validate if this answer is well accepted. And finally, don't forget, five, you re-propose, that's the structure. Because in the end, objection is just a step along the way. To the golden door at the end of the corridor!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:13:55] At the top of the stairs. Thank you Mr. Performance for this exchange. And above all, thank you for listening to this episode. And if you like PHCom, don't forget to share, rate and send us your own objections.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:14:08] And remember, "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" is sales, only better.

• [00:01:07] Three core skills in every sales cycle
• [00:01:41] Learning to stay silent
• [00:02:05] Empathy, patience, and the desire to understand
• [00:02:14] Beware the temptation to move too fast
• [00:02:25] The art of creating connection
• [00:02:36] CAB & CSAQ
• [00:03:07] Arguing means testing, validating, and adjusting
• [00:03:16] Show enthusiasm and clarity
• [00:03:26] Draw it out (literally)
• [00:03:43] The closing: beware of wrapping up too early
• [00:03:57] Not too early, but not too late either
• [00:04:14] A four-step logic
• [00:04:47] Adapt to your conversation partner
• [00:05:26] Decisions are no longer made alone
• [00:05:57] With a prescriber or recommender
• [00:06:31] Agreeing on the price
• [00:06:37] The Pearl Harbor example?
• [00:08:10] A price is fair if it’s based on strong conviction
• [00:08:26] Five keys to closing the deal
• [00:09:18] The Colombo effect
• [00:10:02] The power of anticipation
• [00:10:45] Teaser for the next topic
• [00:10:57] Wrap-up

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:13] Hello and welcome to another episode of the "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" podcast, produced by PHCom in the "transforma bxl" studio, with technical support from "The Podcast Factory Org".

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:23] The "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" podcast is aimed at marketing and sales managers as well as company executives with commercial responsibilities.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:32] Every month, we share with you our best practices in finding new customers for companies in the business-to-business sector.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:38] You can find each episode on the PHCom dot be website: P.H.C. O.M, and also on all good podcast platforms.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:48] You can support this podcast and promote its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible: via a like, a comment, a share.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:55] The answering machine is always open so that you can leave us a message, which we'll be delighted to answer.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:00] You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane on PHCom dot be.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:06] See you soon.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:07] Hello everyone, today we're tackling a fundamental theme: closing. And to close the deal, you have to be convincing. And to convince, you need to know. Three skills, three key stages in any sales cycle worthy of the name.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:21] Three phases. If they're badly orchestrated, you'll miss out on golden opportunities. Timing, posture, content, everything counts, so let's unroll this red thread together, this commercial version of the customer journey.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:41] As we've already said, getting to know someone means much more than obtaining a contact sheet or identifying a need. It means discovering the prospect's world, his language, his constraints and his challenges. It's not a question of talking, but of learning to keep quiet.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:54] And yes, one mouth for two ears, which means listening twice as much as talking. Speech is silver, but silence is gold. And to listen, we have a magic tool: active listening with the right questions.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:05] And then there are the essential human qualities: empathy, patience and a desire to learn. Put yourself in the other person's shoes, understand what they're not saying.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:02:14] But beware of the temptation to go too fast. I've seen too many salespeople who ask two questions, pick out a keyword and come up with their pitch like Lucky Luke. No, no, no, it takes time, it's built.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:25] Then comes the act of convincing, and here it's not enough to simply roll out a list of features. Convincing is the art of linking what you have with what the other person is experiencing.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:02:36] Exact. At this stage, the models we've already talked about are actually the "CAB" eh? A good place to start: Features, Benefits, Advantages. A step further, the CSAQ, C.S.A.Q. Characteristically, we have a data point. Meaning, we have an advantage. Question, are you sure this is the right benefit for you?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:54] Let's take an example. Our company is on a human scale, so what? What does this mean? This means you're in direct contact with one of the decision-makers. And we end with "This is important to you, isn't it?"

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:07] And if the answer is yes: banco! If not, we throw another pole. So arguing means testing, validating and adjusting.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:16] Above all, it's also about enthusiasm and clarity. All the good points have been made? Great, but have they been understood, accepted and validated? And that's our real challenge.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:26] Good technique for making yourself understood: make a drawing, useful for the visual, put in the steps, adapted, personalized for the customer, and then you've got something.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:37] And that's where we show our authority, because we're the experts and we bring a solution to the company.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:43] And now, the climax, the conclusion. Rhoooo how many times have I heard salespeople want to close too early, like "Hello, we're installing photovoltaic panels. We can even do it without you having to pay anything. Can I come and see you?"

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:57] Yes, and conversely, if you keep talking and arguing, well, it's too late, the momentum's gone, the train's left the station. And on the phone, when it's too late, we get the famous "Well, just send me a document, that'll be enough". And then it's clearly over, the prospect takes the lead and we're in defensive mode.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:14] To conclude properly, you have to respect a logic, yes. A four-point logic, and I invite you to keep it in mind. First point: recap key words, 30 seconds, summarize everything you've understood. Second point: propose a clear, motivating, "OK, what I'm proposing is..." follow-up. Three small points. Third point: ask the question, closed for example "Is it ok for you?" or open "What do you think?" but always assume. And fourth: take over the lead, explain the next steps and provide guidance.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:47] It sounds simple, but why don't we get 100% sales or 100% appointments when we talk to the right person?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:54] But because we didn't adapt to that right person, we didn't listen, we weren't creative, we weren't sure of ourselves. For example: we rarely, if ever, think of differentiating our proposal according to the profile of the person we're talking to. He's an asset, and we're going to build with him. He's an asset but closed, so we know the idea will have to come from him. You've got an open liability, you've got to take it by the hand, and that's when you can string together the "Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes" questions. On the other hand, it's a closed asset, and we know very well that we're going to have to reassure it.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:23] In short, the same sentence doesn't sound the same to everyone.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:05:26] In fact, we now also have to conclude contracts with people who are not the final decision-makers. In today's companies, as everyone knows, decisions are no longer made alone.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:38] Cough. And the logic has to remain the same, we have to be able to take it to the next stage, and to do that we have to reach an agreement with two people, depending on the person. I'm thinking of an example: he's a sponsor, and it's a question of giving him the weapons to convince his boss, i.e. a clear document, an unstoppable logic, a message he can take back. And that's the deal we need to strike with him.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:05:57] The same logic applies to prescribers, who are a different kind of contact, aren't they? Let's cooperate! Come on, let's go to a meeting together and train him to carry the message internally. And for that, well, as we said, he has to agree. And it's once again this type of agreement that we're looking for, this agreement with him. In the meantime, don't forget to write down the key words that will summarize the project, and to validate the impact it will have on the stakeholders, which will help him... And it'll help you too.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:31] In the end, that's what concluding is all about, coming to an agreement together. And can we also agree on the price?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:37] Obviously, let's talk money. Do you know the story of the Pearl Harbor mechanic?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:42] Um, no, it doesn't ring a bell. Vas-y raconte!

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:44] Ok, war 40-45, attack on Pearl Harbor, all the ships are sunk, there's one that's still standing but it has to be repaired because the engine won't start. As a result, the captain called in all his mechanics, but we couldn't get it started. Okay, so the U.S. Navy sends in its best experts, but it's impossible to get the scroggin' engine started. Ah, but he's heard of a little mechanic, who works on the island, who knows his stuff very, very, very well "Ok, we'll give him a call". He says, "Yeah, okay, that's fine. He looks down, picks up his big monkey wrench, you know the big monkey wrenches that are at least 50 centimetres long.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:21] They make a lot of noise

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:22] Sometimes even more. Bang! (Very loudly), excuse me. Well, they're typing in the right place, the "Poum, poum, poum, it's restarting" engine. Ah ok the commander all happy: "Well ok, you send me the bill, eh?". Then he gets the bill, $1,500, wow, $1,500 at the time is still a lot. "Ok, but I'm a little annoyed this little mechanic because this is too expensive. Break down the bill for me please, Mm?", okay. What appears on the invoice? Travel $15, labor $15, knowledge or typing $1,470. That's it, it's all there in the conclusion and in the price, it's assurance and serenity. Your price is the right price, provided you're convinced it's the right price. And the problem is not how much it costs, but how much it's worth.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:10] Okay, so it's all in the mindset. The price is right if it's based on a strong conviction.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:15] And that's what we need to get across in our proposals: we're not selling a product, we're selling a transformation, something that will solve a problem, something that will fulfill desires, the famous needs.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:26] So, to recap, to conclude you have to be ready to conclude. Can we sum up what's clearly important? There are five keys, and I'll give you the first. One: availability to listen.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:40] The second key is to pay attention to the signals: "Okay, now's the time, now's the right time".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:46] You also need confidence, self-confidence on the one hand. On the one hand, I'm sure of my proposal, and on the other, I trust the other. The dira " Oui."

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:54] Fourth key: assertiveness, without aggressiveness, to demonstrate your expertise.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:00] And finally, the fifth key is creativity: to be able to adapt or find the right formula.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:09:06] And there you have it: it's all a question of knowing how to stand back and not be afraid of concluding, or in a hurry.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:12] Concluding means saying "We're going to work together". It's not the end of the cycle, but the beginning of a beautiful relationship.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:09:18] Let's finish with the ultimate closing trick: the Colombo effect... you know it?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:21] Yes, the TV series, when I wasn't born yet, but what's that got to do with anything?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:09:24] There was something good about that Inspector Colombo, you know, with his raincoat and his old Volvo. But the main thing is that he always had a way of asking questions, very specific questions, and in fact he would grill his alleged culprit and finally come to the conclusion "No, it can't be him". So he apologized, "Excuse me, I've bothered you, I'm going to leave, aren't I? At that point, well, the presumed culprit is completely relieved, what does he do? He lowers his guard, he lowers his defenses. And so it's the right moment for Colombo to ask the ultimate question, the one that will completely destabilize him, and finally identify that he's the real culprit.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:01] What's the link?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:10:02] Listen, enjoy the Colombo effect. You agree with the person you're talking to, great, he's relieved, so you can start planning the next step. You may not have signed the contract yet, but you've already got a first agreement. Relieved? Perfect, then propose something else, something extra, that will move your relationship forward, that will encourage her to think about something that could buy extra with you.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:27] In fact, you prepare for your next appointment, I admit, it's clever, you see the expert because you know what's going to happen, you're going to anticipate.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:10:34] It's like chess: you prepare your moves. Remember that you can't force a sale, you have to build it "step by step", but at the end, you also have to be able to say "Ok, let's go".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:45] Ok, well I'm going to get ahead of myself here, and I'll take you a step further: the next episode will be about negotiating the price. And this, believe me, is a real art. We'll talk about the ten techniques for presenting your prize.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:10:57] Merci madame Harmonie.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:58] Thank you, Mr Performance.

• [00:01:07] Introduction
• [00:01:49] What concretely motivates a person?
• [00:02:24] Coherence with one’s values
• [00:02:49] Core values
• [00:03:26] Why dare to ask for a client change
• [00:03:38] Meaning at work
• [00:04:35] Incentives
• [00:05:25] Asking the right questions
• [00:05:44] The importance of dialogue
• [00:06:16] External and internal factors of motivation
• [00:06:33] Stress at work
• [00:06:49] Good stress versus bad stress
• [00:07:08] Technostress
• [00:07:29] The importance of breaks
• [00:07:43] The most common causes of stress
• [00:08:24] The counter-example of sales bonuses
• [00:09:55] Slowing down to reflect and take time for yourself
• [00:10:15] Being in the flow…
• [00:10:48] Having good training and a high level of challenge
• [00:11:29] Sharing victories
• [00:11:47] Madame Harmony’s summary
• [00:12:33] Conclusion and episode closing

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:13] Hello and welcome to this new episode of the Performance and Harmony podcast produced by PHCom at the Transforma studio in Brussels, with technical support from The Podcast Factory Org.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:23] The Performance and Harmony podcast is aimed at marketing and sales managers as well as company leaders with commercial responsibilities.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:32] Every month, we share the best experiences in finding new clients, for companies active in business-to-business.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:38] You can find each episode on the PHCom.be website, P.H.C.O.M, and also on all the main podcast platforms.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:48] You can support this podcast and boost its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible through a like, a comment, or a share.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:55] The voicemail is always active so you can leave us a message, we will happily respond.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:00] You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane by visiting PHCom.be

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:06] See you soon.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:07] Welcome to this new episode of PHCom, the podcast for Belgian entrepreneurs and salespeople who want to combine Performance and Well-being at Work. Today, we dive into a pretty hot topic, a very burning issue: motivation, stress, and mindset in our daily sales prospecting.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:25] And that's perfect, because if there's one thing that fluctuates as fast as Belgian weather, it's a salesperson’s motivation. One day bright and sunny, the next gloomy... And that’s when you don’t hear from them anymore. On the other hand, when everything goes well, a sale or setting an appointment, or a good deal, well it gets celebrated at least five times internally. So the real question is: how to keep motivation high?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:49] Let's start at the beginning. What concretely motivates a person? In fact, what drives a human being from a very young age is primarily the need to satisfy vital needs. Ok, that’s logical, right? You remember Maslow's famous pyramid: for physiological and safety needs, salary and contracts cover that. But once you climb the pyramid, you need to be nourished by something else, which is normal. Let's be clear, nobody is sustainably motivated by threats. However, you can fuel energy when you touch what makes sense to the individual; they alone are responsible for their actions and motivation.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:02:24] So, like in sales where you listen to your prospect, you have to listen to and understand your collaborators and what can nourish them. So basically, what you’re saying is that even before bonuses or recognition like "Well done, you made a great sale," it’s the coherence with one’s values that really boosts motivation?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:43] Exactly. In fact, there are two big levers: needs to be fulfilled, and fundamental values which are extremely important.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:02:49] And what are fundamental values?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:51] It’s what matters most to each of us. It can be many things: love, power, money, creating a family, or any other value, as long as it’s personally dear and feels good to us. Acting in line with our values multiplies our energy. Many colleagues refuse missions that involve selling a product they don’t believe in; they say "If I don’t believe in it, I feel like I’m betraying my integrity."

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:17] That’s true, we are lucky at PHCom since we handle about 40-50 different clients, which allows us to assign the right clients to the right salespeople with whom it fits well.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:26] That’s indeed the key. If it doesn’t work, a salesperson must dare to ask for a change. And guess what? In the products or services, or sectors where they feel aligned, they will excel.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:38] It even goes further, when you talk about fundamental values, I think there are general values we can all align with, and that’s the meaning of our work.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:47] Yes, it’s the famous story of the stone masons during cathedral construction. Either you look at the stone you are shaping and you’re satisfied with your good work. Or you say "Ah no, it helps to build a nicer wall," or even better, it helps build a cathedral that elevates human spirituality.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:08] Exactly. So, if I summarize my job as bringing clients to meet my targets, that’s not enough. But if it contributes to sustaining and growing a company, that’s much better. And for Generation Z, if it helps sell a product or service that reduces CO2 and helps save the planet, that’s top of the top. Right?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:34] Absolutely!

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:35] So carrots and bonuses aren’t enough. The stick – like "go back to the office if you haven’t hit your results," or "stop working from home," basically all threats – not good. In summary, that’s it.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:46] Key takeaway. Motivation can be external: bonuses, recognition, set goals, etc. But be careful, it lasts only if it resonates with internal motivation, meaning: pride, purpose, personal growth, personal beliefs.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:05:02] I completely agree. I’m one of those consultants who left their job to give meaning through advice. That’s how we started PHCom actually, I no longer found meaning as a consultant but I gave a lot of meaning in the company I created. So 100% external motivation is like an engine running idle, it doesn’t work!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:25] Exactly. You have to connect daily actions to something personally meaningful. For that, you must ask yourself the right questions: "What do I really need? What is important to me? Are my daily actions aligned with myself, meaning with my values?"

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:05:44] Ok, let’s talk about a case I experienced. We hired someone; first six months: top, perfect. Then little by little, they disengaged, their speech became lukewarm, they said they were tired, not aligned, basically they didn’t bring in contracts like before.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:58] And? How did you proceed? Did you dig into it together? Did you talk about it?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:02] Yes. And actually the result was very simple: a sick mother. So he was under a lot of stress at home, couldn’t give importance to all his calls or his job. He did the job mechanically, but really without engagement... Pfff.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:16] You see, this perfectly illustrates the two types of factors influencing motivation and why you can clearly lose it depending on what you live. There are external factors, as we repeat: pressure, worries, lack of support. And internal factors, which are conflicting values or, for example, mental overload.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:33] And if we talk about stress, alongside motivation, what happens?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:37] Oh dear! Stress is often seen as a bad word, nobody likes stress, when you hear it, it makes everyone uncomfortable. But in reality, it’s an alarm, and it becomes very harmful when it is chronic or misunderstood.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:49] Are you referring to good stress versus bad stress?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:52] Exactly. Good stress pushes us to act, it mobilizes us. But beware, bad stress, the kind that lasts, linked to uncertainty, unrealistic deadlines, or loss of meaning, it clearly exhausts us. And there’s a term that we hear more and more: technostress.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:08] Ah, that one I know. Between the CRM, call tracking tools, AIs rating your performance, plus emails, chats — you never really disconnect. It’s permanent hyper-connection. Whereas you need to learn to unplug, and not only the phone when doing cold calling or hot calling. But at the end of the day: stop, pause.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:29] Yes. And when we talk about breaks, breaks are super, super, super important because when we take breaks during the day, it allows us to recover energy, and ideally, you should take 5 to 10 minute breaks when you stop and take time.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:43] So apart from the infamous technostress, what are the most common causes of stress?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:47] Among the most frequent stressors for salespeople, there is the constant urgency — that is, shifting schedules, short deadlines. There’s also uncertainty, like finding your place in the team, having unclear or irrelevant goals. There are also conflicts with colleagues, clients, managers, our superiors or subordinates. There’s isolation for freelancers or remote workers who see fewer people than when going to the office every day. There’s a lack of recognition and obviously, a lot about overload, meaning burnout or boredom — and that is called bore-out.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:24] And so technostress as well, we said. Well, for me, the core of stress, really, in our sales profession, is uncertainty. Which is linked to a prospect or client who ultimately holds the result: “Will I reach my goals? Will they sign a contract or not?” And if you don’t meet your goals, well it’s their fault. No, obviously that’s the challenge: to arrive, together with the client or prospect, at agreements — it’s no longer your fault, or mine, but together we achieve something. And for that, what I fundamentally believe is that phone prospecting techniques must be learned, you have to train. Same in all sales jobs. If you do negotiation, field sales, one-shot sales, consultative sales, you must learn and master because it helps you manage those uncertainties. Going back briefly to internal and external motivation, often we talk about the carrot, the bonuses — well, I understand that’s not enough. The stick, saying “You didn’t sell, no bonuses for you, or you come back to work at the office or I’ll punish you for this or that” — that’s definitely not it, it’s even worse. So bonuses can be very interesting, but they can also backfire as demotivators where you think “I can’t reach those bonuses, I’ll only get worse,” and that’s how salespeople drop out.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:55] We can go further now to find motivation and serenity long-term. First, it’s important to allow yourself to slow down to question yourself, and especially to take time for yourself. Take time to explore what really makes sense, then identify what drains your energy and especially what restores it.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:10:15] And so we can touch on a subject: flow... you obviously know it!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:21] Of course, flow is when you are completely absorbed in your activity. It’s a mental state you reach when you’re fully immersed, with maximum concentration, engagement, and total satisfaction of accomplishment.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:10:36] In fact, you don’t see time passing, and it suits you perfectly. At the end of the day, if you reach your goals, then you’re perfectly happy and ready to start again the next day.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:48] Exactly. And to go back to what you said about training, to reach flow, you need a high level of skill and so that can be obtained by good training, but also a high level of challenge. It’s the combination of both that makes you fully satisfied and happy in what you do!

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:11:06] Conversely, if you have a low skill level and a low challenge level, in the end you’ll get bored.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:14] At the same time, if you’re asked to do things you weren’t well prepared for, you’ll generate worry and anxiety. And if you’re highly skilled but not challenged enough, you may start to get bored, which isn’t better.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:11:29] Ok, anecdote: we set up sharing victories, even tiny ones — just that gives a new breath.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:36] Yes, it’s excellent because the brain loves positive feedback and it recreates connection. Isolation kills motivation, but sharing instantly reactivates it.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:11:47] Ok, we touched a bit on everything. Can you give us a summary, Mrs. Harmony?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:52] Perfect! Here’s a little summary in five points. First, motivation is a powerful fuel when fed by our needs and values. Second, it can be lost due to internal conflict, overload, isolation, or lack of meaning. Third, stress can be acute or chronic, good or bad, and becomes toxic when it settles without solution — so take good care of yourselves. Fourth, to bounce back, reconnect with your personal drivers, create connections, revisit your priorities, and above all, learn to know yourself. And one last little point for the road: enter flow, where you can deploy high skills and challenges that stimulate you.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:12:33] Thanks for the summary. So we hope that this episode, even if it’s not 100% sales, still gives you concrete leads because if you feel demotivated lately, maybe it’s just a sign you need to refocus and especially not to give up.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:51] Find your little inner compass and I swear, things will get much better.