• [00:01:07] Introduction
• [00:01:49] What concretely motivates a person?
• [00:02:24] Coherence with one’s values
• [00:02:49] Core values
• [00:03:26] Why dare to ask for a client change
• [00:03:38] Meaning at work
• [00:04:35] Incentives
• [00:05:25] Asking the right questions
• [00:05:44] The importance of dialogue
• [00:06:16] External and internal factors of motivation
• [00:06:33] Stress at work
• [00:06:49] Good stress versus bad stress
• [00:07:08] Technostress
• [00:07:29] The importance of breaks
• [00:07:43] The most common causes of stress
• [00:08:24] The counter-example of sales bonuses
• [00:09:55] Slowing down to reflect and take time for yourself
• [00:10:15] Being in the flow…
• [00:10:48] Having good training and a high level of challenge
• [00:11:29] Sharing victories
• [00:11:47] Madame Harmony’s summary
• [00:12:33] Conclusion and episode closing

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:13] Hello and welcome to this new episode of the Performance and Harmony podcast produced by PHCom at the Transforma studio in Brussels, with technical support from The Podcast Factory Org.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:23] The Performance and Harmony podcast is aimed at marketing and sales managers as well as company leaders with commercial responsibilities.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:32] Every month, we share the best experiences in finding new clients, for companies active in business-to-business.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:38] You can find each episode on the PHCom.be website, P.H.C.O.M, and also on all the main podcast platforms.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:48] You can support this podcast and boost its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible through a like, a comment, or a share.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:55] The voicemail is always active so you can leave us a message, we will happily respond.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:00] You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane by visiting PHCom.be

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:06] See you soon.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:07] Welcome to this new episode of PHCom, the podcast for Belgian entrepreneurs and salespeople who want to combine Performance and Well-being at Work. Today, we dive into a pretty hot topic, a very burning issue: motivation, stress, and mindset in our daily sales prospecting.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:25] And that's perfect, because if there's one thing that fluctuates as fast as Belgian weather, it's a salesperson’s motivation. One day bright and sunny, the next gloomy... And that’s when you don’t hear from them anymore. On the other hand, when everything goes well, a sale or setting an appointment, or a good deal, well it gets celebrated at least five times internally. So the real question is: how to keep motivation high?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:49] Let's start at the beginning. What concretely motivates a person? In fact, what drives a human being from a very young age is primarily the need to satisfy vital needs. Ok, that’s logical, right? You remember Maslow's famous pyramid: for physiological and safety needs, salary and contracts cover that. But once you climb the pyramid, you need to be nourished by something else, which is normal. Let's be clear, nobody is sustainably motivated by threats. However, you can fuel energy when you touch what makes sense to the individual; they alone are responsible for their actions and motivation.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:02:24] So, like in sales where you listen to your prospect, you have to listen to and understand your collaborators and what can nourish them. So basically, what you’re saying is that even before bonuses or recognition like "Well done, you made a great sale," it’s the coherence with one’s values that really boosts motivation?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:43] Exactly. In fact, there are two big levers: needs to be fulfilled, and fundamental values which are extremely important.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:02:49] And what are fundamental values?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:51] It’s what matters most to each of us. It can be many things: love, power, money, creating a family, or any other value, as long as it’s personally dear and feels good to us. Acting in line with our values multiplies our energy. Many colleagues refuse missions that involve selling a product they don’t believe in; they say "If I don’t believe in it, I feel like I’m betraying my integrity."

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:17] That’s true, we are lucky at PHCom since we handle about 40-50 different clients, which allows us to assign the right clients to the right salespeople with whom it fits well.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:26] That’s indeed the key. If it doesn’t work, a salesperson must dare to ask for a change. And guess what? In the products or services, or sectors where they feel aligned, they will excel.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:38] It even goes further, when you talk about fundamental values, I think there are general values we can all align with, and that’s the meaning of our work.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:47] Yes, it’s the famous story of the stone masons during cathedral construction. Either you look at the stone you are shaping and you’re satisfied with your good work. Or you say "Ah no, it helps to build a nicer wall," or even better, it helps build a cathedral that elevates human spirituality.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:08] Exactly. So, if I summarize my job as bringing clients to meet my targets, that’s not enough. But if it contributes to sustaining and growing a company, that’s much better. And for Generation Z, if it helps sell a product or service that reduces CO2 and helps save the planet, that’s top of the top. Right?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:34] Absolutely!

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:35] So carrots and bonuses aren’t enough. The stick – like "go back to the office if you haven’t hit your results," or "stop working from home," basically all threats – not good. In summary, that’s it.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:46] Key takeaway. Motivation can be external: bonuses, recognition, set goals, etc. But be careful, it lasts only if it resonates with internal motivation, meaning: pride, purpose, personal growth, personal beliefs.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:05:02] I completely agree. I’m one of those consultants who left their job to give meaning through advice. That’s how we started PHCom actually, I no longer found meaning as a consultant but I gave a lot of meaning in the company I created. So 100% external motivation is like an engine running idle, it doesn’t work!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:25] Exactly. You have to connect daily actions to something personally meaningful. For that, you must ask yourself the right questions: "What do I really need? What is important to me? Are my daily actions aligned with myself, meaning with my values?"

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:05:44] Ok, let’s talk about a case I experienced. We hired someone; first six months: top, perfect. Then little by little, they disengaged, their speech became lukewarm, they said they were tired, not aligned, basically they didn’t bring in contracts like before.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:58] And? How did you proceed? Did you dig into it together? Did you talk about it?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:02] Yes. And actually the result was very simple: a sick mother. So he was under a lot of stress at home, couldn’t give importance to all his calls or his job. He did the job mechanically, but really without engagement... Pfff.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:16] You see, this perfectly illustrates the two types of factors influencing motivation and why you can clearly lose it depending on what you live. There are external factors, as we repeat: pressure, worries, lack of support. And internal factors, which are conflicting values or, for example, mental overload.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:33] And if we talk about stress, alongside motivation, what happens?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:37] Oh dear! Stress is often seen as a bad word, nobody likes stress, when you hear it, it makes everyone uncomfortable. But in reality, it’s an alarm, and it becomes very harmful when it is chronic or misunderstood.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:49] Are you referring to good stress versus bad stress?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:52] Exactly. Good stress pushes us to act, it mobilizes us. But beware, bad stress, the kind that lasts, linked to uncertainty, unrealistic deadlines, or loss of meaning, it clearly exhausts us. And there’s a term that we hear more and more: technostress.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:08] Ah, that one I know. Between the CRM, call tracking tools, AIs rating your performance, plus emails, chats — you never really disconnect. It’s permanent hyper-connection. Whereas you need to learn to unplug, and not only the phone when doing cold calling or hot calling. But at the end of the day: stop, pause.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:29] Yes. And when we talk about breaks, breaks are super, super, super important because when we take breaks during the day, it allows us to recover energy, and ideally, you should take 5 to 10 minute breaks when you stop and take time.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:43] So apart from the infamous technostress, what are the most common causes of stress?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:47] Among the most frequent stressors for salespeople, there is the constant urgency — that is, shifting schedules, short deadlines. There’s also uncertainty, like finding your place in the team, having unclear or irrelevant goals. There are also conflicts with colleagues, clients, managers, our superiors or subordinates. There’s isolation for freelancers or remote workers who see fewer people than when going to the office every day. There’s a lack of recognition and obviously, a lot about overload, meaning burnout or boredom — and that is called bore-out.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:24] And so technostress as well, we said. Well, for me, the core of stress, really, in our sales profession, is uncertainty. Which is linked to a prospect or client who ultimately holds the result: “Will I reach my goals? Will they sign a contract or not?” And if you don’t meet your goals, well it’s their fault. No, obviously that’s the challenge: to arrive, together with the client or prospect, at agreements — it’s no longer your fault, or mine, but together we achieve something. And for that, what I fundamentally believe is that phone prospecting techniques must be learned, you have to train. Same in all sales jobs. If you do negotiation, field sales, one-shot sales, consultative sales, you must learn and master because it helps you manage those uncertainties. Going back briefly to internal and external motivation, often we talk about the carrot, the bonuses — well, I understand that’s not enough. The stick, saying “You didn’t sell, no bonuses for you, or you come back to work at the office or I’ll punish you for this or that” — that’s definitely not it, it’s even worse. So bonuses can be very interesting, but they can also backfire as demotivators where you think “I can’t reach those bonuses, I’ll only get worse,” and that’s how salespeople drop out.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:55] We can go further now to find motivation and serenity long-term. First, it’s important to allow yourself to slow down to question yourself, and especially to take time for yourself. Take time to explore what really makes sense, then identify what drains your energy and especially what restores it.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:10:15] And so we can touch on a subject: flow... you obviously know it!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:21] Of course, flow is when you are completely absorbed in your activity. It’s a mental state you reach when you’re fully immersed, with maximum concentration, engagement, and total satisfaction of accomplishment.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:10:36] In fact, you don’t see time passing, and it suits you perfectly. At the end of the day, if you reach your goals, then you’re perfectly happy and ready to start again the next day.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:48] Exactly. And to go back to what you said about training, to reach flow, you need a high level of skill and so that can be obtained by good training, but also a high level of challenge. It’s the combination of both that makes you fully satisfied and happy in what you do!

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:11:06] Conversely, if you have a low skill level and a low challenge level, in the end you’ll get bored.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:14] At the same time, if you’re asked to do things you weren’t well prepared for, you’ll generate worry and anxiety. And if you’re highly skilled but not challenged enough, you may start to get bored, which isn’t better.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:11:29] Ok, anecdote: we set up sharing victories, even tiny ones — just that gives a new breath.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:36] Yes, it’s excellent because the brain loves positive feedback and it recreates connection. Isolation kills motivation, but sharing instantly reactivates it.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:11:47] Ok, we touched a bit on everything. Can you give us a summary, Mrs. Harmony?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:52] Perfect! Here’s a little summary in five points. First, motivation is a powerful fuel when fed by our needs and values. Second, it can be lost due to internal conflict, overload, isolation, or lack of meaning. Third, stress can be acute or chronic, good or bad, and becomes toxic when it settles without solution — so take good care of yourselves. Fourth, to bounce back, reconnect with your personal drivers, create connections, revisit your priorities, and above all, learn to know yourself. And one last little point for the road: enter flow, where you can deploy high skills and challenges that stimulate you.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:12:33] Thanks for the summary. So we hope that this episode, even if it’s not 100% sales, still gives you concrete leads because if you feel demotivated lately, maybe it’s just a sign you need to refocus and especially not to give up.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:51] Find your little inner compass and I swear, things will get much better.