#014 / 2 – The Voices of Our Clients - B2B Prospecting: VOO Shares Its Experience with Marc Tubier

• [00:00:13] Podcast introduction
• [00:01:08] What does Marc Tubier do at Orange?
• [00:01:29] How does Orange stand out from its competitors?
• [00:02:05] What does the future hold for the VOO brand?
• [00:02:39] How is business development organised?
• [00:03:36] What does a typical day in sales look like?
• [00:04:25] What role do responsiveness and client follow-up play?
• [00:04:42] Which sales achievement is Marc proud of?
• [00:05:31] How do you retain clients over the long term?
• [00:06:29] How do you handle requests that take time to resolve?
• [00:07:14] How are sales techniques evolving?
• [00:08:35] How do you preserve the human element amid digitalisation and AI?
• [00:11:32] Which sales skills are essential in 2026?
• [00:12:53] What is Marc’s next sales objective?
• [00:13:42] Are clients concerned about the transition from VOO to Orange?
• [00:15:11] How does prospecting with PHCom work?
• [00:16:52] How is the collaboration with PHCom adjusted?
• [00:18:26] How would you describe PHCom in three words?
• [00:18:33] Thanks and closing remarks

Podcast introduction

[00:00:13] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello and welcome to this new episode of the podcast "Performance, Harmonie & Commercial" produced by PHCom in the "transforma bxl" studio, with technical support from "The Podcast Factory Org"

[00:00:23] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The "Performance, Harmonie & Commercial" podcast is designed for marketing and sales managers, as well as business leaders with commercial responsibilities.

[00:00:32] Stéphane Depaepe: Every month, we share best practices in prospecting new clients for business-to-business companies.

[00:00:38] Nadia Ben Jelloun: You can find every episode on the PHCom dot be website, P.H.C.O.M, and also on all major podcast platforms.

[00:00:47] Stéphane Depaepe: You can support this podcast and boost its visibility by sharing it widely with a like, a comment, or a share.

[00:00:55] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The voicemail is always active so you can leave us a message; we will gladly get back to you.

[00:01:00] Stéphane Depaepe: You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane by visiting phcom dot be.

[00:01:06] Nadia Ben Jelloun: See you soon.

[00:01:07] Camille de Meeûs: Hello Marc.

What does Marc Tubier do at Orange?

[00:01:08] Marc Tubier: Hello Camille

[00:01:09] Camille de Meeûs: I'm delighted to have you on the PHCom podcast today. So, tell us a bit about your work—what do you do, specifically?

[00:01:15] Marc Tubier: Specifically, I work for Orange, the Orange Group, into which V.O.O has now been integrated for two years. And my main role today is to develop what is called employee internet, a benefit provided by an employer.

How does Orange stand out from its competitors?

[00:01:29] Camille de Meeûs: What sets you apart from the competition? There are a lot of competitors in that sector, so how does it work?

[00:01:34] Marc Tubier: Absolutely. I think that, if we ask what characterizes Orange today, I would say... It's a multinational, so we feel that very, very strongly in the sense that development is very significant, the experience from each country is very important, which obviously brings an added advantage compared to the competition. And having had the chance to rub shoulders with the competition and work there, I see today that it really is an asset. And this Orange advantage, in this case with VOO, really aims to move up and become tomorrow—as we all hope—the market leader here in Belgium.

What does the future hold for the VOO brand?

[00:02:05] Camille de Meeûs: And so VOO is becoming Orange; will we still hear about VOO or will it solely be Orange, how is that going to work?

[00:02:11] Marc Tubier: Today, we hear about VOO. I would say the company no longer exists, but the brand exists, which is very important for Orange since VOO has brand awareness and a current impact across the entire French-speaking part of the country. In Flanders, it's different; VOO doesn't exist and Orange is there. In the future, it is clear—I can't give you a precise date, no, but we will get there very quickly—the idea is of course to have only one single brand, which is Orange. So, yes, the VOO brand will likely smoothly migrate toward Orange in the future.

How is business development organised?

[00:02:39] Camille de Meeûs: We'll move on now to business development. I assume you must have large business units on the commercial side (Marc Tubier: Absolutely), how does it work on that front?

[00:02:48] Marc Tubier: It is very structured. And for me, having been used to—I'll take the past example with V.O.O. we were what you might call, crudely perhaps, Swiss Army knives; we were ready to lend a hand here and there. Here, we are really in structures where everyone has a well-defined role. And the goal of that is to have strength across the board, which at any given moment can indeed add value to a very specific request, etc. So I would say that as far as I'm concerned, commercially, we are in a well-defined team. And right there that's an important point because your team can provide you with all kinds of other support, which is my case today, and commercial development also involves external parties. At Orange, we quite often call on external collaborators, whether from within the group or, why not, for example, as is the case today with PHCom for specific development tasks defined mainly by my job.

What does a typical day in sales look like?

[00:03:36] Camille de Meeûs: What does a typical day look like as a salesperson for you?

[00:03:38] Marc Tubier: That's a very good question, I'll speak for my own case. The day will mainly consist of: client follow-up, because today, once my client enters the program, what is called at V.O.O. "V.O.O. For employee" tomorrow at Orange probably "Orange for employee" well there is follow-up to do, whether administrative or for a very specific request. There is also booking appointments, appointments that are made for my part largely thanks to PHCom, and appointments that I also have. I'd tell you that the day starts at 9:00 AM and can end at 5:30 PM–6:00 PM, depending, of course. The advantage and the point I have always emphasized is listening to my client. And if my client asks me for something very specific and it needs to be at 5:30 PM–6:00 PM, it will be done, so I'd tell you that the day can be very full, and it is, at least as far as I'm concerned.

What role do responsiveness and client follow-up play?

[00:04:25] Camille de Meeûs: So there is genuine responsiveness on your part toward your clients and day-to-day follow-up that is very important?

[00:04:30] Marc Tubier: It's the most important thing. For what reason? That being said, it's Orange's hallmark too, right? Today the client is important, following up with employees, etc. But in my case, indeed, I would say that listening to and following up with my client is very, very important.

Which sales achievement is Marc proud of?

[00:04:42] Camille de Meeûs: What is the greatest commercial success you're proud of today?

[00:04:45] Marc Tubier: Concretely speaking, today, well I would say, and if I speak about what I do, "V.O.O. For employee" was truly a great success. To explain briefly, it's been—for my part, this is my eighth year as manager of "V.O.O. for employee"—eight years ago, we were at half the number of employees enrolled in the program; today, we're up by nearly 50%. I am not alone, of course; I have a colleague I work with, there are only two of us on this. But that success is real; it was about rebuilding, analyzing, listening, and following up. And the key to that success is really listening to and following up with your clientele. In the past, I'm not saying it wasn't monitored, but it was left a bit fallow, as they say. And today, we've had the chance to turn that around in a few years. Today, we are in another phase of course, since Orange is here and we want to migrate everything toward this type of product at Orange.

How do you retain clients over the long term?

[00:05:31] Camille de Meeûs: We talk about follow-up, responsiveness, but what also remains very important is customer loyalty. How do you keep your clients over the long term?

[00:05:37] Marc Tubier: I think that long-term customer loyalty has to come from—I use this very often—I'm an authentic person who needs to feel trust, and to have my client's trust. If that trust is there, if we manage to create, yes, a genuine—not simply "I work for you, you work for me"—no, here a real relationship is established, and I think that this loyalty is certainly driven precisely by how well we listen to clients. Today in telecoms, if you don't listen to your clients and you force something on them, you're going to get a crazy backlash. There will always be reactions, but I think that today, listening is to me the most important thing to build customer loyalty. If my client tells me "Mr. Tubier, I don't like this, I don't want that", we have to be able to find a solution for them. I didn't say there's always one, right? But...

[00:06:21] Camille de Meeûs: Yeah, that's what I was about to say. Especially in your sector, honestly it can't be easy, every day there must be quite a few challenges in finding solutions straight away.

How do you handle requests that take time to resolve?

[00:06:29] Marc Tubier: Yes

[00:06:29] Camille de Meeûs: Aren't these processes that take time?

[00:06:31] Marc Tubier: Well yes, the process takes time and I think that today—it's a very good question—I think employers don't always take the time. You're going to tell me "Yes, well it makes sense, there are the results, the results, the results". That's true, but I strongly believe—and maybe you'll say "that's an old fogey talking"—but I strongly believe that, precisely, by listening to your client, by fine-tuning a bit—I use the mixing console metaphor to say "Look, I'll push that slider a bit higher, etc.". I think that by doing that, you retain them and indeed you can answer their questions. Now, I repeat, we don't always have an immediate solution and it will take time. Where it gets interesting is that if my client believes in me, they will stick with me. And that's a strength that perhaps not everyone has, or other operators don't have.

How are sales techniques evolving?

[00:07:14] Camille de Meeûs: How have you seen sales techniques evolve over the years in your sector? Because I assume you have to reinvent yourself.

[00:07:20] Marc Tubier: Well, you do have to reinvent yourself. But I often like to say to colleagues we've known for thirty years or so, whom we associate with through work, etc. "The wheel turns, but the wheel doesn't always reinvent itself." We modernize certain things, because today, as we were mentioning earlier (Camille de Meeûs: Digitalization too) about intelligence, digitalization, artificial intelligence, there are plenty of things today that we didn't have yesterday. So I'd tell you that reinventing yourself, yes, is thanks to the techniques and products available today. Now, is it complicated? No, I think when you have it in your gut and you truly want to, and you're also able to step back a bit and tell yourself, "Yesterday I used a piece of paper to report that, whereas today I have social media, I can do plenty of things digitally." Advertising today isn't just a poster; it's animated, which didn't exist back in the day—in short, there are plenty of things. I mean, today, well, we were talking about it when we arrived, you want my contact details? Well here, my QR code and you have my contact details. Yesterday, you pulled out your business card; that doesn't exist anymore. So today I think reinventing yourself is mostly using what we have available to be creative, more efficient, faster. You were talking about speed earlier. Well, there you have it: if a client wants something, am I able to react? The client wouldn't want it to be an email, but they'd want something more convenient, you see? There you go. So today it's: using what we have, to be able to reinvent the past in a way.

How do you preserve the human element amid digitalisation and AI?

[00:08:35] Camille de Meeûs: In the telecoms sector, aren't you afraid, being right in the thick of it, that there's this loss of the human touch, precisely, with everything becoming digitized? I find it's a sector where you can really ask yourself that question more than others.

[00:08:46] Marc Tubier: I'll admit to you on a personal level, yes, it's scary because I'm a human person, I need contact, I need—you know—to see each other, to talk. We could have done this interview remotely, people could indeed have said to me, "Yes, but is she real or is it an AI asking the questions?". When you look at artificial intelligence today, it's capable of having a very clear voice and you think, "Whoa, there's a problem, let's try speaking to it in English or Dutch and then we'll see that... Ah, it's not the same thing." So yes, yes, it's scary, but I think we need to use it intelligently. We shouldn't say, "I don't want it, and it scares me." No, I think we need to be able to—taking my own case—use this again, perhaps with a few caveats, and ask ourselves whether we're using it well or not. Yes, it's scary, and for example, working with colleagues who are in pure call centers and who come back to me saying, "Marc, we saw a demo, it's fabulous." Stepping back, my reaction, with my telecom experience, was to say, "But do you realize that, probably within—not tomorrow, but within three or four years—maybe your pure job won't exist anymore, and that it will be transformed?" Are people ready for this transformation? I don't know. Should we prepare them? To that, I say "Yes" (Camille de Meeûs: And starting right now) and is that..., yes, absolutely. I think that today, and at Orange for example—I say today because I saw it just yesterday—in the emails we have presentations on the group's artificial intelligence, we have Q&A exchanges because every employee, no matter what position they're in, may indeed at some point be forced to use artificial intelligence or simply be confronted with the fact of thinking, "Well, we're going to use artificial intelligence and you'll be behind it to feed it, to adjust it, and so on." But I think that indeed, and you're right, the better prepared the person is, the better it will be. Now, to answer your question clearly, yes, it's a bit scary, but I need the human element, so for me, an intelligence will never replace the real aspect. And I repeat, the two of us are seeing each other, we're talking together, we could have done it remotely—were you there, was I there, you just don't know, so there you go.

[00:10:39] Camille de Meeûs: It's so important, and I think there's a real challenge in that regard across all companies today, to realize that we have tools available that make work easier, saving us time and boosting efficiency. But be careful, let's not forget our core essence, which is still humanity.

[00:10:51] Marc Tubier: Yes. I think we are fortunate at Orange, for example, to mention my employer, to have this, quote-unquote, humanity. I say quote-unquote because people are important, it's no secret; artificial intelligence exists and will exist even more thanks, in some way, to humans. So if humans aren't behind it driving it, it won't work. I think, indeed, you're right: that humanity must remain. Now, what people might then say is, "Yes, but humanity is good, but performance is better, and therefore performance equals profit." Now, that's going to be another question. Will an employer have, quote-unquote, the vision to say, "Okay, maybe I'll earn a little less, but people matter"? That is the future, and we know absolutely nothing about it.

[00:11:28] Camille de Meeûs: We're going to have to adapt with the times.

[00:11:31] Marc Tubier: Exactly.

Which sales skills are essential in 2026?

[00:11:32] Camille de Meeûs: In your opinion, what sales skills are essential today, in 2026?

[00:11:36] Marc Tubier: For me, the primary skill is knowing your product. If you don't have that knowledge of your product, don't go diving into new customer acquisition, etc. etc. I think the skills, even for a good salesperson, come down to knowing their products, their product. Then, individual strengths come in, and I see it with my colleagues: everyone has that little extra something the other might not have; some love to talk. I think a salesperson who doesn't talk could find it tricky, although that's not necessarily true, once again, if it's someone who is perhaps more of a listener and will offer you something clearer. I always say that in fields like IT, they need to listen, they build something, they offer you something, that's it. Is that a sales approach as well? I think the first thing is knowing your product, and then it's you. Do you feel capable of standing up for this product? Do you feel ready when compared to the competition? Are you also not afraid to talk, to engage in an exchange? Again, it's that side—and we come back to the human element—if you don't have that side; and then the pressure, I think for a salesperson today, I'm lucky enough to have pressure, yes, but it's lighter than in the past. Let me explain: today I work for a product, if the client takes it, that's great, no problem. In the past, I worked telling myself, "Here is your target for the month: hit this amount." You're a good salesperson, you want to hit it, things go wrong, and you can quickly spiral into stress, into everything we hear about today, (Camille de Meeûs: Burnout and...) burnout, pressure, being pressured by the employer, etc. Etc.

What is Marc’s next sales objective?

[00:12:53] Camille de Meeûs: What is your next personal sales goal?

[00:12:56] Marc Tubier: My next personal sales goal is specifically to successfully navigate the transition between V.O.O. "V.O.O. For Employee" that I'm working on, to "Orange For Employee". It's really, I'll be completely honest with you, today I'm personally at a turning point in my career, and I think to myself, "I would really like to be able to pass on this thing that I've always loved. I think throughout my sales career, pass it on" whether to a new colleague, someone who will take over in the future. Because I also realize that the success of this will obviously depend on how we are able to pass things on. So that's a project for me, being able to say to myself, "If tomorrow—well, if tomorrow, it's no secret, I have to stop. Personally, I probably have another two years, two and a half years left. So, my dream today is to be able to say we succeeded in this transformation and this migration, call it what you will, that's really my goal for tomorrow. That's really it.

Are clients concerned about the transition from VOO to Orange?

[00:13:42] Camille de Meeûs: This name change. Because V.O.O. is very well known, Orange too, but is it scary? Is it already scaring customers?

[00:13:48] Marc Tubier: We're not going to beat around the bush. Yes, it scares customers. Because the customer thinks, "Wait, but VOO is an established brand in Wallonia, Orange is an established brand in Wallonia." Today, we work at Orange; Orange was originally a mobile operator. Today, Orange has the strength, thanks to this multinational company, to say, "Okay, now we offer: the internet, which is essential and important, television, and mobile," it's very, very important. So yes, it's scary, but I think it's up to us to be able to explain to customers what we're doing, whether in the sales department—meaning the people selling our products in our stores—or in our call centers, we prepare our customer. And today we don't do it by saying, "I'll just adjust a slider, and there, everyone becomes..." No, not at all, we prepare them. I think customer preparation is very important; nevertheless, today, some people still say, "Well, I'm subscribing to VOO because I want VOO." We are not—today we aren't here saying, "You can no longer subscribe to..." But it's true that we explain to them by saying, "Well, tomorrow, when I don't know, everything will be Orange, and that's it."

[00:14:43] Camille de Meeûs: There will be a transition taking place

[00:14:43] Marc Tubier: There will be a transition, a migration, let's call it, clearly. Which makes sense, right? You can't—I mean, in Belgium, Orange's goal here is also nationwide coverage. VOO was only in the French-speaking area, and so today this migration is completely feasible. I reassure—if customers are listening to us, I completely reassure them that Orange in Wallonia is a huge success, right? It's flawless, the network is very good, there are no issues. Now, there are always those we call the die-hard holdouts who will want to stay in their own little corner, but I think at some point, everyone will smoothly come around, there won't be any problem.

How does prospecting with PHCom work?

[00:15:11] Camille de Meeûs: Now we are going to talk about prospecting with PHCom. How does it work, and how long has it been going on?

[00:15:16] Marc Tubier: With PHCom, the exact date, I'd tell you maybe three or four years, something like that. What was very important, and Stéphane isn't here so we can mention him, is that it came from PHCom. That's what I've always said, it's once again: that active listening, that empathy, the needs. And then they came back with a proposal. What I like about PHCom, and what I will always defend, because I also have a manager who is demanding and believes that results are everything. I always say, "That's true, but the quality at PHCom regarding—in my case, setting up appointments with large companies, and so on." It's that it's clear, precise, really targeted to my needs, I would say, to develop the concept. And one thing leading to another, there has always been analysis, listening, analyzing the results: what isn't working? Just recently, we readjusted the search areas a bit, and so on. Because we told ourselves, "Look, we tested that type of employer, but we realized we need to go further." Honestly, to me PHCom isn't just merely a call center, and that's not derogatory, you know? I insist, call centers have their role; I think both you and I often get phone calls saying, "Hello, I sell Bordeaux wine," and it's often a call center abroad. Personally, okay, we come from that world, so no thank you. And what I like about PHCom is really that listening, that development. And we challenge ourselves, exactly, that's truly what we appreciated. And the results are there. Now, PHCom's role is clear: it's developing these appointments, and then it's up to me to develop, I would say, the contracts. PHCom doesn't step into that part of the pipeline; PHCom has a primary role, and the next step is up to me.

[00:16:44] Camille de Meeûs: In fact, our job at PHCom is to open the door, and once it's open, it's up to you once again (Marc Tubier: That's it, absolutely) to build loyalty and ensure that...

[00:16:49] Marc Tubier: That the contract is signed, finalized, and so on.

How is the collaboration with PHCom adjusted?

[00:16:52] Camille de Meeûs: There you go, exactly. So you have been active, I believe, since 2021 with PHCom (Marc Tubier: Yes). That's five years, have there been changes in the way you collaborate? Have there been readjustments? (Marc Tubier: Yes. Yes, yes, absolutely) How are things going on that front?

[00:17:01] Marc Tubier: Systematically, I'd say at the beginning it was somewhat quarterly, we reviewed the way of working a bit, the positive points, the points... And what I also like about PHCom is that analysis. You have a product that is clear, precise, the number of phone calls, important for a call center, the number of appointments booked, etc. And it's very clear and very practical to use. Now, each time, the analysis conducted, whether with Stéphane or Hamza, who is my contact today, is really about asking, "What's working, what isn't working, what do you need today more than yesterday, we remove and...". Then there's no secret, you work, I don't know, let's say 40 hours or you work 80 hours, it's totally different, the scope is broader. Yet despite that, PHCom manages to adapt, and I'd say, personally, I say it honestly, the quality of the appointments booked is there. Then again, it's not easy. Yes, with Stéphane too, we've often discussed it, saying, "Hey, shouldn't we take a break?", because the pool that PHCom has is there, it's huge. But at the same time, isn't taking a break at some point important? For instance, we are going to take a break in July-August, because well, okay, PHCom was on leave, but we also realized, thanks to PHCom's analysis, that: there are slower periods, it's the holidays (Camille de Meeûs: Slower times), people are harder to reach, the Human Resources they contact are on vacation or the right person isn't there, you'll have to get back later. So we said, "Pause, and we'll see in September whether we resume the same way or not". Knowing that, on our end, the goal is perhaps to be able to integrate the development of "Orange For Employee" tomorrow, so that's very important.

How would you describe PHCom in three words?

[00:18:26] Camille de Meeûs: If you had to define your collaboration with PHCom in three words, what would you say?

[00:18:30] Marc Tubier: Pleasure, quality, attentiveness.

Thanks and closing remarks

[00:18:33] Camille de Meeûs: Thank you, Marc.

[00:18:34] Marc Tubier: Thank you, Camille.

[00:18:35] Camille de Meeûs: Have a great day, and all the best for the future.

[00:18:37] Marc Tubier: Thank you, you too.

[00:18:38] Camille de Meeûs: Thank you.

[00:18:39] See you soon.